Which game defined Stealth?

[TheBrotherOfLight]

Kind of a stupid question to ask in a Metal Gear forum, huh? ;D

Well, the thing is, a Swedish site I use to hang out on made a list of the ten most important games in history. Metal Gear Solid was no where to be seen. Actually, have a look at the list. You might not understand the language, but the images speaks for themselves. gameplayer.se/focus_text.php?pub_id=6176#comment

Anyways, so there was this one fella who questioned why Metal Gear wasn't on the list (no, it wasn't me). One of the authors of the list said that Metal Gear (referring to the series as a whole)hadn't influenced the gaming world much and hadn't created headlines. Believe me when I say, I had a bad touch of WTF-illness. Even more so when the guy went on and claimed Metal Gear hadn't created a genre!!

So the person who first questioned the whole thing replied by saying that Metal Gear created the stealth-genre. Now the author said Metal Gear didn't define Stealth-gaming, but Thief did!! Have you ever heard of such nonsense?

Because I just so happen to recall hearing about a game which had a huge impact on the gaming community in 1998 or so. And it wasn't called Thief.

[A.G.]

That’s is exactly why I only go to 1 gaming forum, and it’s this one. People tend to talk our of their ass due to either lack of knoweledge or the desire to start arguments. This guy is most likely the latter of the two. To say something like that back around 1999-2000 could be chucked up to lack of knowing. I mean, MGS was a big release, but understandably not EVERYONE played it. MG1 and 2 were practically unknow as well. But now?! C’mon....

Metal Gear 1 dates back to 1987 and as such set the series among the oldest gaming series that are still running today.

Metal Gear Solid really set the pace for approach to gaming and was voted either in the top 3 or number 1 game on the PlayStation console by just about all the major gaming sites and magazines.

Metal Gear Solid 2 was a mega-hype game. One trailer cause the Konami server to crash to massive downloads! First ever game that truly looked and felt REAL. 7 million copies sold, among the highest selling games of all time.

Metal Gear Solid 4 right now is the ONLY reason why many will buy a PS3.

So yeah, the guy is full of it. The Metal Gear series is among the best of all time. Last summer, GameFaqs did those massive, month-long polls for the greatest series and character of all time. Well, Metal Gear was in the finals for both along side Mario, Final Fantasy, and Zelda. Castlevania and Metroid were among the top as well.

Fact is, Metal Gear is an icon now. The MGS theme is perhaps the most recognized music theme in gaming. And just look at all the stealth clones that Metal Gear generated *cough... splinter cell... cough*.

[TheBrotherOfLight]

Thanks, just what I needed. Now I'm confident enough to go flame his ass!

Well, no I won't, but I'm almost there. We've started a discussion he and I. Let's see where it leads. ;D

[A.G.]

Besides, how can a game start a genre when it was already established over a decade ago? Even if he were to ignore Metal Gear 1 and 2 for being 2D, he can't deny the 3D Metal Gear Solid.

MGS release in Japan: 9/08/1998
MGS release in US: 10/20/1998
Theif: 11/30/1998

So yeah... 2D or 3D, Metal Gear was first in stealth.

[TheBrotherOfLight]

Dude, get this!

I said I thought he was wrong about Metal Gear, and here's his reply, translated into English:

Metal Gear wasn't a stealth-game and whatever your opinion is it therefore did not create the stealth genre. And there was games that were stealthy before Thief, but Thief was the first modern sneak 'em up-game and it invented the first variation. That's a fact, no matter what one thinks.

Holy cow! Does he has nerves or what!?

[A.G.]

Something I found, the defintion of a Stealth Game:

Stealth-based games (occasionally referred to as "Sneak 'em ups") are video games that, unlike traditional action games, revolve around patience, lurking, and avoiding detection (or getting rid of an enemy silently and quickly without calling attention) in order to complete missions.

Metal Gear: 1987
Metal Gear 2: 1990
Metal Gear Solid: 09/08/1998
Thief: 11/30/1998



Just show him that!

[TheBrotherOfLight]

admin said:

Give them the dates for the releases that I posted and a couple of links to reviews by gamespot or IGN so that he sees the word "stealth".

I would, but I'm to tired to get into an argument with him. And I have a record of being banned from other sites because of extensive (and not so gentle) talk about Metal Gear.

But I did write a song about him and put it up on my blog on their site.

gameplayer.se/user_blogg.php?user_id=2806&blogg_id=1619#main

It's not much, but it's very straight forward. The lyrics are:

Lars Jensen, Lars Jensen
He's so wrong
Lars Jensen, Lars Jensen
He's so wrong

Edit:
Ah, what the heck. I'll show him! ;D

[A.G.]

Does he speak English? If so, get his ass over here and see how he holds his ground on our turf!

[TheBrotherOfLight]

admin said:

Does he speak English? If so, get his ass over here and see how he holds his ground on our turf!

LOL! ;D

He would go crying to his mom!

[TheBrotherOfLight]

Now I feel embarrassed. I told you we started having a discussion, right? You won't believe how utterly stupid this dude is! He is chief editor of Gameplayer where we are having the discussion, he's 29 years old and have no idea what he's talking about! I feel sorry for him.

This is his newest and probably most stupid answer to date:

Metal Gear isn't a sneak 'em up, no. It's an action/adventure game which you probably will realize if you play the game. Sure, it contained some sneaking elements, but so did Castle Wolfenstein which came before it.

When talking about dates it's not the release date that matters but when they started development. But what's most important is that Thief took stealth-gaming to its limit by implementing real stealth-functions like sound and light, and not just line of sight like MGS.

But sure, much of what one "believes" depends on what criteria one have. If you believe the tiniest bit of stealth in a game is criteria enough to call it the inventor of the genre, then Castle Wolfenstein is the one and it came in 1981.

But you probably saw I said "Thief was the first modern sneak 'em up" so I didn't consider games that only contained some bits of stealth.

What a stupid mofo! The worst thing is, he's a video game journalist, and people who knows nothing tend to take whatever they say as indisputable truth!

[A.G.]

Wolfenstein a steath game! LMAO! I wouldn't even talk to that idiot.

Let the moron fight his fight against facts....

[TheBrotherOfLight]

admin said:

Wolfenstein a steath game! LMAO! I wouldn't even talk to that idiot.

Let the moron fight his fight against facts....

Yeah, I gave up. His friend (also an editor at Gameplayer) joined his side and started mouthing off and he actually put words in my mouth. I hate that.

Hey, you don't happen to be the dude who wrote in english there? ;D

[A.G.]

[leon]

I used to deal with people about the whole "Theft was the 1st stealth game to be recognized then MGS" by the hundreds on other online games (and don't get me started with the SP vs MGS). He isn't the only A-hole I bitched at but from his occupation their company just lost all the respect points on MGF and even other fansites. It seems he only knows stealth games as "the 1st to used all the elements in a 3D virtual world" and how the old MG games were not using it because of the limitations on the MSX versions.

I konw...lets go over there and tell their forum members the truth and get them to come over here and sign up. The Metal Gear fans of course.

[The Mad Jackyl]

The first game other than Metal Gear that used an element of stealth that I can recall personally is a sweet little game called Rescue: The Embassy Mission which came out on the NES in 1990. Here's a cool page about it I found, take a look: www.i-mockery.com/shorts/rescue-embassy/default.php

The first part of the game was most definitely stealthy. That guy arguing the case for Thief made a mention how it was the first to use elements of light and sound...well, in the first part of R: TEM, you have to move your snipers into position along the buildings facing the embassy. The terrorists scan the streets with spotlights and you have to hide from them while making your way to a predetermined point. You can crawl, do a diving roll, and hide behind ledges, inside doorways, dive through windows, etc. in order to not get spotted. If you got spotlighted, they'd gun you down.

Going back to the part about Metal Gear Solid only requiring sight...uh...I don't think he's ever played the game from what it sounds. What about knocking on a wall to lure a guard? This was a videogame first. How about in the heliport when you get get discovered by the huge roving spotlight? Using a silencer is pretty stealthy, but even move stealthy is choking people out and breaking their neck. Also, if you stay outside long enough, you can catch a cold and develop a sneezing problem which will alert guards to your presence.


Also, if you want to show how Metal Gear has been more relevant, look at the whole slew of games in the same vein as Metal Gear that spawned almost immediately after its success: Tenchu, Splinter Cell, and Siphon Filter are all titles that sprang up due to the realization of stealth as an element of gameplay. Notably, Splinter Cell is the closest thing there probably is to Metal Gear, and its influence is clear by how often it is promoted as a competitor to the Metal Gear series.