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Post by A.G. on Feb 13, 2011 21:09:57 GMT -5
The point I'm making is that nowhere was it stated that Vamp didn't have powers. It's just that his natural abilities where enhanced by nanos. So for all we know he could run on water without nanos, like Fear did.
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john
Grunt (level 1)
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Post by john on Feb 13, 2011 21:17:04 GMT -5
What would be the point of explaining certain powers but not touching the others? I could understand it if Kojima needed an excuse for Vamp to die (after all, a major theme of the game is the inevitability of death), but if that's all he wanted, why explain how he was able to run up the Big Shell strut?
I guess you could say those deus ex boots (which in this game, look just like regular boots, apparently) have Jesus-feet abilities, but that's besides the point.
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Post by solidelman on Feb 13, 2011 21:30:13 GMT -5
I'd say Ocelot was planning on fooling The Patriots somehow, and when Liquid kicked in through his arm (lol what a badass), he liked the idea and used it to his advantage, but he replaced the arm so it wouldn't cause problems.
I don't see any reason he'd want to be Liquid on purpose in the Tanker chapter at least.
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john
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Post by john on Feb 13, 2011 21:34:28 GMT -5
He needed an arm and Liquid's was up for grabs. He tried keeping Liquid's personality at bay until he had Arsenal Gear, the remains of GW, and Big Boss'/Solidus' body. I went over this in the "MAJOR PLOTHOLE LOL" thread.
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Post by solidelman on Feb 13, 2011 21:52:57 GMT -5
But how did he even come up with the idea? He could have fooled The Patriots in many other ways. Yet he chose being taken over by Liquid.
Being actually possesed seems like a plausible reason.
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Post by A.G. on Feb 13, 2011 23:16:30 GMT -5
Well, Big Boss' body was hidden. Snake was running wild. Solidus was watched by the Patriots. Liquid was dead. So that was the closest thing he had to Big Boss' DNA.
Look, you don't know what Vamp was like before the nanos. So you can't assume that all his abilities where from the nanos. Fear had very similar powers to Vamp, no nanos. Vamps where more impressive, possibly because the nanos enhanced ALL those abilities, INCLUDING healing. Naomi does not disprove that. Otacon made the immortal comment and she simply explained that it was nanos enhancing his natural healing abilities. That does NOT mean those are the only abilities they were enhancing.
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john
Grunt (level 1)
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Post by john on Feb 14, 2011 20:39:25 GMT -5
Originally, we were meant to believe that getting impaled by that cross gave him his powers.
Cross = Christianity/Jesus' return from the grave and walking on water.
The symbolism doesn't work as well now that immortality is out. We never see him run on water, and if he did, it was probably because of those boots. And even then, that doesn't change the fact that Ocelot wasn't literally possessed by Liquid's spirit in MGS2.
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Post by A.G. on Feb 15, 2011 0:07:20 GMT -5
Stop going in circles on this already. sigh... This is the LAST TIME I'm going to write this:
1. It is NEVER stated that Vamp didn't have powers prior to getting nanos. All we know is that the nanos enhanced his already-existing abilities. Seeing how The Fear had very similar abilities without nanos there is a good possibility that Vamp had them as well. Nanos simply enhanced them to the next level. And not dying from the cursifix piercing proves even more that he already had amazing healing abilities to start with.
2. I don't believe in a spirit possession but I do believe in biological takeovers. We have an interesting mix there. First the arm of a product of an advanced and rather complex cloning project... one that has all the dominant genes of the greatest soldier ever. Second we have the son of a spirit medium. There is no reason to rule out a posibility that Ocelot may have some sort of dormant spirit medium abilities in him. So a mix of those two is very unpredictable. It was Liquid in MGS2. The in-game facts prove that. The change in the hair prove it was a biological take over.
Now, you can go ahead and theorize all you want. It really doesn't matter. It doesn't change what is actually shown in the games. Period. And in the games it is VERY clear that it is, in fact, Liquid. And there is enough theoretical data, as written above, to further prove that.
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john
Grunt (level 1)
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Post by john on Feb 15, 2011 15:32:42 GMT -5
Stop going in circles on this already. Bahahahaha, that's the same thing I was thinking when reading your posts. Fine, go ahead and act like Kojima knows what he's doing 100% of the time. |
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Post by A.G. on Feb 15, 2011 22:10:06 GMT -5
Oh really? That's what you deduced from my posts? Wow... Not only did you not understand what was written, but clearly you don't even know what Kojima's stance on this is. He never confirmed it one way or another, not 100%. But given what is shown on screen, Liquid did take over Ocelot's body. The only thing you have to contradict that is an idiotic theory that it was actually the player that heard Liquid's voice and noticed the hair change. lol
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588 
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Post by fgdj2000 on May 18, 2014 9:21:58 GMT -5
You know, that the Metal Gear Series is a work of fiction, right? And that it is released on an audiovisual medium and makes use of its mediums characteristics, right? In japanese mythology it is common that if an alien entity possesses somebody's body, that somebody is going to talk with the voice of the other entity. It has been done countless times in anime and films. It doesn't make any logical sense, it is just a way of telling the audience "now X is possesed by Y!"
Similarily to how Arsenal Gear starts looking more and more like a VR simulation - not necessarily to indicate, its VR now in Universe, but to let the player subconciously share Raidens sense of reality breaking down.
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Feb 12, 2015 4:02:25 GMT -5
I remember getting those f...cking weird CODEC calls from the Col. and Rose. Goddamn it, it f...cked with me like Inception! lmfao
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588
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Post by fgdj2000 on Jan 18, 2017 8:57:38 GMT -5
The point I'm making is that nowhere was it stated that Vamp didn't have powers. It's just that his natural abilities where enhanced by nanos. So for all we know he could run on water without nanos, like Fear did. Now we know, it was probably parasites AND nanos.  |
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Jan 18, 2017 9:32:15 GMT -5
Speaking of Vamp...
I just CANNOT stand his character, but MGS4 made him MUCH more tolerable in that it explained a lot of his immortal tendencies. One of the things I was looking forward to MGS4 to explain the most. But still...running on water and then running straight up the strut of Big Shell? C'mon, Kojima...wtf were you thinking there? He's pretty much a walking plot device. Hmm...the game is coming close to an end and this problem or that still needs to be addressed...well, how the fark do we do that? Oh, well, we'll just have this deus ex machina character do anything in the "impossible" realm we need done and give it a BS explanation.
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Post by A.G. on Jan 18, 2017 20:23:17 GMT -5
That's an example of too much Kojima. Metal Gear is brilliant when realism and fantasy are in balance. But when Kojima goes unchecked he let's the fantasy get out of hand.
As for Vamp and Fear... parasites and nanomachines indeed. How lame! It's like being a kid and seeing the mall Santa getting dressed in the bathroom. Just kills it.
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