Post by fgdj2000 on Jan 4, 2017 12:46:29 GMT -5
I honestly don‘t know where to start and I actually want to keep this short.
So, first off, MGSV and MGS PW had a lot to talk about.
PW talked about in detail about the whole concept of peace and also deterrance and how the military (typically not associated with peace) plays an important role in that. All those things about how you can‘t trust a human being with nuclear retaliation, how The Boss A.I. would join in on a soviet nuclear attack on America in a simulation early in the game, because it would rather insure the survival of the human race than retaliate on the Soviets? How Snake builds up a militaristic group to fight off another and ends up owning a nuke on his own? Did you miss the irony? How peace was exactly the one thing that would make Snake and his entire life obsolete and how the realisation that The Boss would rather die than sacrifice peace kind of drove Snake over the edge? Did you miss all that? Sure, some of it was heavy handed. We didn‘t need two characters whose names actually mean peace. We didn‘t need all the butterflies and Peace logos. I personally found the singing machines (particularly the Crysalis) and Big Boss‘ speech at the end (second ending) pretty haunting. And I thought the scene were the A.I. drowned itself also pretty powerful. But that‘s a matter of taste and if it didn‘t have that impact on you, I can‘t fault you for that.
MGSV: First off, I admit three things:
REVENGE to me is more a secondary theme, given that it isn‘t really explored in MGSV.
RACE is a bit of a misnomer, since I believe Kojima is actually talking about language and its effect on human beliefs and identity, tying directly into how Genes, Memes and the Times have an effect these things as well.
The storytelling at times is awkward. The Jeep ride in particular, but also how cutscenes are few and far between and a lot of the story are relegated to audio cassette tapes.
The entire point of the game was a to demonstrate how language can manipulate people. It was a direct follow up to the social experiment that was MGS2. Your reaction is proof of that. You took Big Boss‘ ending monologue only at face value: Big Boss (and Kojima) passing the torch to you and admitting that anyone can be Big Boss. How cool! But how much can actually attributed to you. I think it is no accident that you actually feel more like the elite errand boy the entire game rather than the big leader of the Diamond Dogs. And I believe the mundane mission targets, the many missions in between major plot related missions, the 1000 yard stares of Venom Snake, were all put there purposefully to give the player the feeling that something‘s off. And the big reveal can really be interpreted two ways: the obvious way, that Big Boss complements you, or the truer way that Big Boss screws you. Making you, the player, the Big Boss doppelganger made people just genuinely lean more towards the former interpretation. And for these things, Kojima shoehorned in a completely new character into the continuity, to get this point across. And that is how Kojima operates and has always operated. He is fine with continuity issues to get that thematic point across. And that's why I said, you didn't get the MG series.
And I‘m not an idiot you know. I know full well that the game has flaws and maybe 10 years from now Kojima will come out and say „hey, I just screwed up!“ But knowing Kojima, I think it was all on purpose. I still think the repeat missions in Chapter 2 and mission 46 with the tutorial icons and the emptyness of motherbase and the open wolrd were unfortunate screw ups. I just don‘t know the reasons for this. There were obviously issues between Konami and Kojima and they obviously had an impact on the game. However, as someone who admires Kojima and his games I‘m just not acting like a whiny b*tch about it and willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.
Now you‘re just acting up. Once again, it‘s interesting that someone who doesn‘t like these games and claims not to care about them anymore, still ends up playing these two games over and over again. You clearly do care too much about them. And hate them for not fitting your narrow definition of the MG series. (Yes, I‘m exaggerating here, since you‘ve played MGSV only twice and I have no idea how often you‘ve actually played PW, but hey, this is a heated discussion)
Well, I‘m sorry, if I‘m not interested in a discussion about whether MG2 was the FIRST EVA! game that allowed teabagging.
I have more to talk about, such as the message of MGS4 (that game does talk about how your intentions and your will can't be coded and directly transmitted to the new generation and how it is always in danger of being misinterpreted... A LOT) but I‘ll leave it at that for now, since this post is quite long anyway (and I won't even fault you for not reading through all of it. But if you did, kudos and thank you at least for that).
So, first off, MGSV and MGS PW had a lot to talk about.
PW talked about in detail about the whole concept of peace and also deterrance and how the military (typically not associated with peace) plays an important role in that. All those things about how you can‘t trust a human being with nuclear retaliation, how The Boss A.I. would join in on a soviet nuclear attack on America in a simulation early in the game, because it would rather insure the survival of the human race than retaliate on the Soviets? How Snake builds up a militaristic group to fight off another and ends up owning a nuke on his own? Did you miss the irony? How peace was exactly the one thing that would make Snake and his entire life obsolete and how the realisation that The Boss would rather die than sacrifice peace kind of drove Snake over the edge? Did you miss all that? Sure, some of it was heavy handed. We didn‘t need two characters whose names actually mean peace. We didn‘t need all the butterflies and Peace logos. I personally found the singing machines (particularly the Crysalis) and Big Boss‘ speech at the end (second ending) pretty haunting. And I thought the scene were the A.I. drowned itself also pretty powerful. But that‘s a matter of taste and if it didn‘t have that impact on you, I can‘t fault you for that.
MGSV: First off, I admit three things:
REVENGE to me is more a secondary theme, given that it isn‘t really explored in MGSV.
RACE is a bit of a misnomer, since I believe Kojima is actually talking about language and its effect on human beliefs and identity, tying directly into how Genes, Memes and the Times have an effect these things as well.
The storytelling at times is awkward. The Jeep ride in particular, but also how cutscenes are few and far between and a lot of the story are relegated to audio cassette tapes.
The entire point of the game was a to demonstrate how language can manipulate people. It was a direct follow up to the social experiment that was MGS2. Your reaction is proof of that. You took Big Boss‘ ending monologue only at face value: Big Boss (and Kojima) passing the torch to you and admitting that anyone can be Big Boss. How cool! But how much can actually attributed to you. I think it is no accident that you actually feel more like the elite errand boy the entire game rather than the big leader of the Diamond Dogs. And I believe the mundane mission targets, the many missions in between major plot related missions, the 1000 yard stares of Venom Snake, were all put there purposefully to give the player the feeling that something‘s off. And the big reveal can really be interpreted two ways: the obvious way, that Big Boss complements you, or the truer way that Big Boss screws you. Making you, the player, the Big Boss doppelganger made people just genuinely lean more towards the former interpretation. And for these things, Kojima shoehorned in a completely new character into the continuity, to get this point across. And that is how Kojima operates and has always operated. He is fine with continuity issues to get that thematic point across. And that's why I said, you didn't get the MG series.
And I‘m not an idiot you know. I know full well that the game has flaws and maybe 10 years from now Kojima will come out and say „hey, I just screwed up!“ But knowing Kojima, I think it was all on purpose. I still think the repeat missions in Chapter 2 and mission 46 with the tutorial icons and the emptyness of motherbase and the open wolrd were unfortunate screw ups. I just don‘t know the reasons for this. There were obviously issues between Konami and Kojima and they obviously had an impact on the game. However, as someone who admires Kojima and his games I‘m just not acting like a whiny b*tch about it and willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.
Oh I'm a bigot now? Because I have a brain and refuse to accept bull sh*t from official sources? That's cute. Sorry, but I speak my mind, especially on topics that are important to me. And I can open up as many topics about this as I want. What do you care? At this point I bet I spent far more time on both of those games than you. So you are hardly in the position to tell me what I understand and what I don't.
Now you‘re just acting up. Once again, it‘s interesting that someone who doesn‘t like these games and claims not to care about them anymore, still ends up playing these two games over and over again. You clearly do care too much about them. And hate them for not fitting your narrow definition of the MG series. (Yes, I‘m exaggerating here, since you‘ve played MGSV only twice and I have no idea how often you‘ve actually played PW, but hey, this is a heated discussion)
Additionally, I have posted other topics. But shockingly all you respond to are MGS5 and MPW...
Well, I‘m sorry, if I‘m not interested in a discussion about whether MG2 was the FIRST EVA! game that allowed teabagging.
I have more to talk about, such as the message of MGS4 (that game does talk about how your intentions and your will can't be coded and directly transmitted to the new generation and how it is always in danger of being misinterpreted... A LOT) but I‘ll leave it at that for now, since this post is quite long anyway (and I won't even fault you for not reading through all of it. But if you did, kudos and thank you at least for that).
In the end, is there really anything else that matters?