Peace Walker does not work with Metal Gear 1

[A.G.]

It's no secret that dislike I Peace Walker (not the technical side of it, but the plot and the concepts/design). But I think what some people forget is that Peace Walker has to connect properly with Metal Gear 1. And it does not.

A few important points to keep in mind regarding the status of the Metal Gear universe around 1995:

* Big Boss was running FOXHOUND and in secret building Outer Heaven.

* Outer Heaven was Big Boss' opposition to Zero's control.

* Big Boss broke away from the Patriots and opposed Zero since learning the Les Enfants Terrible project.

* Big Boss never considered the clones to be his sons. He also showed no remorse in trying to kill Snake knowing that he is a product of the Patriots.

* Big Boss hand-picked Solid Snake, a rookie, to infiltrate Outer Heaven in hopes that he would fail.


All these points are vital to remember when looking at the ending of Peace Walker. According to Peace Walker, Big Boss already had a base, an army, a Metal Gear, and a nuke in 1974. He also already coined the name Outer Heaven. Zero was aware of all these things because Miller was working with him.

So Zero knows what Big Boss is doing. If that's the case, then why is he letting Big Boss run FoxHound and spear-head an operation to take down Outer Heaven?! That's a major oversight on the part of Kojima. Conceptually it doesn't make any sense.

The story from Zero's point of view (including events of Peace Walker):

* 1964 - Big Boss and Zero work together to solidify the Fox Unit and stop World War 3.

* 1974 - By this point the Zero already started the Patriots and Big Boss is breaking away. Les Enfants Terrible project already produced 2 clones. Big Boss is not aware yet. Zero is aware that Big Boss built a base, an army, a Metal Gear, found a nuke, and plans Outer Heaven.

* 1970's - Big Boss learns of the Les Enfants Terrible and breaks a way from the Patriots to oppose Zero's control.

* 1990's - Zero allows Big Boss to run FoxHound. Why would Zero allow him back when he knows about Outer Heaven?

* 1995 - Big Boss spearheads the operation to take down Outer Heaven. Why would Outer Heaven be a threat now when MSF was just as equipped and just as much of a threat 20 years prior?

* 1999 - Big Boss' body is recovered and Zero preserves him and keeps him alive. He also make his DNA the access to the entire Patriot AI network. He can't let go of his friend.


To me the story seems very broken. Now, if we take Peace Walker out of the equation the story is far more logical:

* 1964 - Big Boss and Zero work together to solidify the Fox Unit and stop World War 3.

* 1970's - Zero starts the Patriots and spreading his control. He makes an insurance policy by cloning Big Boss via the Les Enfants Terrible Project. Big Boss learns of the Les Enfants Terrible and breaks a way from the Patriots to oppose Zero's control.

* 1990's - Zero allows Big Boss to run FoxHound not knowing that Big Boss secretely develops Outer Heaven to oppose Zero's control.

* 1995 - Big Boss spearheads the operation to take down Outer Heaven. It is revealed that Big Boss was actually in charge of Outer Heaven.

* 1999 - Big Boss' body is recovered and Zero preserves him and keeps him alive. He also make his DNA the access to the entire Patriot AI network. He can't let go of his friend.

Much more logical. The only way I see Zero allowing Big Boss to come back in the 90's to run FoxHound would be because he didn't know about Outer Heaven. This also makes the events of Metal Gear 1 make sense. Big Boss knew who Solid Snake was and he knew he had to keep his role in Outer Heaven a secret from Zero. What better way to do so then by being the man in charge of the operation of taking it down? If Zero knows that Big Boss ran Outer Heaven (as Peace Walker states) then it makes the whole Metal Gear 1 story completely pointless.

Anyway, just thought I'de point out this gaping hole in the Peace Walker "contribution" to the SAGA.

[A.G.]

Wanted to point out one other thing. Some may make an argument that Zero did not know Big Boss ran Outer Heaven. However, the same call that reveals Miller as Zero's partner also shows that a site for Outer Heaven was already selected:

youtu.be/UMa5TgX624Q

"Indeed they have. There is a site near Angola", which happens to be in South Africa. So Zero knows about Outer Heaven and even about the planned location.

[The Mad Jackyl]

Let me try to here, let me know if the following would make sense. What if Zero all but knew that Big Boss was the mastermind behind this "Outer Heaven" operation he'd been made aware of? In order to appear to have little to do with the whole deal, Big Boss is forced to use his own FoxHound group to investigate the manner as a way to 'prove' that he couldn't be behind it all. Zero expects this, as does Big Boss, who realizes that Zero is essentially calling his bluff, but is forced to undergo this action because refusing to do so means that any pretense that Big Boss is not involved would be lost. Zero forces his hand in other words into doing something he doesn't want to do but must anyways. Both of them know that the only logical choice would be to send Solid Snake to investigate and have different reasons for doing so. Zero wants to test the les Enfant Terrible project's effectiveness and knows Big Boss will have to choose Snake because he has the greatest probability of failure. Its a chess match using the same man, Solid Snake. If Snake fails to establish anything convincing to report back, Big Boss wins this round, but if he succeeds, Zero gets a double win by simultaneously wiping out Big Boss's plans and proves the efficacy of Les Enfant Terribles program.

[A.G.]

Too much speculation, at least for me. After fighting each other for near 2 decades Big Boss can't just return to US and assume command of a government special unit like FoxHound. Zero would not allow that. By the 90's they were bitter enemies.

[The Mad Jackyl]

It is a lot of explaining away and speculation, something that should never have to occur if something was well-written in the first place. But...Zero could have permitted him to take control of Foxhound if he could more easily manipulate him using that as leverage.

[A.G.]

It just seems silly. I mean, Zero and Big Boss have been at war since Big Boss found out about the clones. So, likely at least a decade and a half feud.

The only way this whole thing works is if Zero doesn't know that Big Boss runs Outer Heaven. Then Big Boss could pretent to come back and "make nice" with Zero, all the while running FoxHound and prepping Outer Heaven for his uprising against Zero. That makes sense.

Now, if Zero knew that Big Boss is running Outer Heaven that can only work until 1995. He could let him back to run FoxHound but it simply would not work as soon as Outer Heaven became a direct threat. Big Boss would not be the man in charge of running the operation to stop it. That simply doesn't add up.

[lueluxacky]

Kojima lost his ability to tell a coherent plot after MGS2. Everything after that was just filled with plot holes and retcons. I still remember rolling my eyes after every "big revelation" in MGS4.

[A.G.]

I was rolling my eyes at the end of MGS2, to be honest. The S3 plan explanations and "BTW Jack, I was the one who killed your parents" were two WTF moments I'll never forget. lol

I didn't think MGS3 did much damage. In fact, it was refreshing to break away from Solid Snake and clones. But yeah, MGS4 overdid it by having everyone connect. Though personally I would say Otacon's dad is really the pinnacle of Kojima loosing his touch. There was no reason to make him identical to his son, NONE.

[cernex]

Huuurm... well, it is all but possible Miller's eventual betrayal ("eventual" as "eventually leading to a tragedy that gets rid of the PW cast") actually destroyed not only the original MG ZEKE, but also the original Outer Heaven and Big Boss' original army?

I mean, was I the only one that noticed that MG's Outer Heaven wasn't supposed to be in the middle of the sea?

Maybe that's just me, though.

[A.G.]

I think a better question in this case is why would he build something that is clearly inferior to ZEKE? TX-55 was far smaller and weaker (since D was the complete version and was easily beaten by grenades and REX was very slow compared to ZEKE).

[cernex]

Nov 13, 2011 21:00:01 GMT -5 A.G. said:

I think a better question in this case is why would he build something that is clearly inferior to ZEKE? TX-55 was far smaller and weaker (since D was the complete version and was easily beaten by grenades and REX was very slow compared to ZEKE).

Guessing that without Huey, Strangelove, and his old resources (if we go by "Miller eventually betrayed Big Boss and destroyed the original Outer Haven" route, that is), Snake was forced to look for alternatives.

Which led to the TX-55, designed by a captured Madnar AND with a much tighter budget.

Which, ironically, was never really finished: Snake destroyed it when it wasn't even active yet.