Fake Photos Alter Real Memories

[The Mad Jackyl]

I thought this was an interesting article, and ties in with the themes and schemes of MGS2 and the Patriots' interests. I'll highlight some of the more relevant parts.

"Some researchers are worried that digitally altered photos could alter our perceptions and memories of public events. To test what effect doctored photos might have, researchers from the University of California, Irvine, and the University of Padua in Italy showed 299 people aged 19 to 84 either an actual photo or an altered photo of two historical events, the 1989 Tiananmen Square protest in Beijing and the 2003 anti-war protest in Rome."

----Hey, cool, UCI is ten miles away from me! ;D

"When answering questions about the events, the participants had differing recollections of what happened. Those who viewed the altered images of the Rome protest recalled the demonstration as violent and negative and recollected more physical confrontation and property damage than actually occurred."

----Then it gets really interesting:

"It’s potentially a form of human engineering that could be applied to us against our knowledge and against our wishes, and we ought to be vigilant about it," said UC Irvine psychologist Elizabeth Loftus, who designed the study. "With the addition of a few little upsetting and arousing elements in the Rome protest photo, people remembered this peaceful protest as being more violent than it was, and as a society we have to figure how we can regulate this."

----There is nothing you can do about it, it's already too late! But on a serious note, this shows that, just like the Patriots attempted to show Raiden in MGS2, people can't be trusted to make their own truths because they are just too unreliable. Or at least 19-84 year olds! ;D

Full article here:
news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20071126/sc_livescience/fakephotosalterrealmemories

[A.G.]

Oh there is not doubt about this, non at all. Heck, we don't know how accurate our history really is, afterall, somone had to write it down. And the perceptions change.

When I still lived in Russia I had a year of Russian (Soviet) history. When I moved to U.S. I had a year of American history and then a year of World history (from an American textbook). I tell you what, same events are looked at VERY differently. Facts omitted and/or misinterpreted. In the Russian class they NEVER touched on the whole Soviets were originally allied with Germany. But then again, in the US class they REALLY downplayed on exactly who was it that kicked the German ass in WWII.

At best, we are left with our own perceptions of what reality is. Look at religion. Some base EVERYTHING around the Bible! A book that was written at a time when if I showed up with my PlayStation 3 I would've been seen a God himself. On the other hand you got people who only see what's infront of their nose, refusing to acknowldege that there are things out there we just don't comprehand.

Who knows. I think of the MGS2 message very often. Even something as small as MGF is a part of the problem. I present the information (though in detail) mostly from my perspective. I group the series the way I see fit. It doesn't mean I'm wront (as I have reasons to do so), but it doesn't make in an absolute and objective source either. Just look at YouTube... everyone has an opinion and each things they are entitled to let it be heard.

This reminds me greatly of an Ian Malcom quote from Jurrassic Park, "You're so preoccupied with weather or not you COULD, you never stop to think if you SHOULD". That's the underlining description of the human race.

[The Mad Jackyl]

Wow, that was an awesome post, Arsenal. I too find myself always being reminded of the themes of MGS2 when things like this come up, for instance. I'm friends online with an MGS fan who is our age (24-25) and he was a history major in college. Him and I have some awesome convo's about all kinds of thought provoking things, one of them is the distortion of historical facts. He's great when it comes to understanding history as it's written from all accounts. He also talks a lot about authors of historical texts, in order to make a living, have to make their work as appealing as possible to gather as large of a readership as they can and many have little regards for ethics because well, it doesn't pay. Integrity gets lost in inexplicable ways. He's even got me thinking about the future of data preservation. We have all these things on CDs, DVDs and online content. CDs supposedly have a relatively short life before the data either corrupts, begins skipping or won't read. Roughly 10-20 years. See this very quick but informative article reported by the Associate Press: www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-05-disc-rot_x.htm

And suppose we have a nuclear disaster, such as a war and all of our electronic infrastructure is damaged or destroyed. Vast amounts of data on the internet would disappear forever when servers get wiped out. Suppose humanity has to revert to survival mode for 30 years. The technologies we have today may start to die since we don't have the means then to sustain them. For some reason, I always think of how fascinating and completely bewildering it will be for archaelogists hundreds and maybe thousands of years in the future digging through our technologies and trying to reconstruct them in order to create the scripting, coding and proper devices to read our encoded and encrypted information which has been stored on highly non-degradable mediums.

[A.G.]

How will we preserver the MG games once the CD’s/DVD’s wear out?! Think about it, no more MGS1 replays!!!!

Anyway, onto the topic. I think that humanity as a whole is putting way too much trust in our technology, which when you think about it isn’t very impressive. I mean yeah, you can have a super PC that can run at high speeds and store a lot of data... but so what? After an EMMA pulse that won’t matter much, no will it?

Think about cars. Every year, new stuff. “oooooooh!!! This one can parallel park itself!!!!” Hmm... how about you make the standard life of car 200,000 miles instead?! Yeah, now that’s worth inventing. How about self-inflating tires instead of extra CD/DVD players. “ooooh, I can hook up my iPod in my car!” WTF?! Who cares! How about voice-activated GPS as a standard issue in all cars?! I mean really, just about in every aspect of life we design the WRONG thing!

As for the preservation of data incase technology is wiped out... at what cost? Paper documents? Think of all the trees we would have to destroy to preserve all the current digital data. That would do more harm than good.

You want an answer? Here it is. STOP BREADING! 99.9% of the world problems can be traced down to the problem of over-population. In 1950 there was about 2 billion people. Now we got over 6.5 billion. “Please donate some money to the starving kids Africa!!!” Tell you what, I will if I get a guarantee that those kids will NOT breed! I’m tired of seeing “starving” families living in a mud hut! If you can’t even feed yourself, WTF are you having kids!!!! It is so stupid! Everyone thinks that’s a “God’s given right”.... “all life’s precious...” Here’s something the Bible doesn’t talk about, NOT everyone get’s a slice of the pie! The more people you got, the less of slice you get. FACT!

If we stop breading we can eliminate SO many problems. Food would be peantiful, no more poverty... which in term would lead to less crime and war. Sure there would be negative element, but it would be easier to deal with. Greed is always present, but if everyone get’s a good-sized slice of the pie, most won’t complain. Further more, less people equals less crappy opinions... Bigger chance to preserve facts.

[shadowf0x]

Wow interesting post and articles guys, well yeah I agree on one thing with Mad Jackyl about differing historical accounts.....Being in High School I my major was also in History....but did you know that back in the 12th century the Pope of Rome was fearful of peoeple connecting Islam and Catholicism together.....because (And this goes into another subject) both religions are somewhat connected so the Pope LET the Muslim's and even funded them so that they could take over all of North Africa and Jerusalem so they could wipe out all the Jews and Christians...so that way the secret would be guarded??? Aww bet you didnt know that....I forgot which Pope did that sh*t though hehehehe....you know ive been smokin' alot of that WACKY TOBBACY lately that my memory seems a little hazy hahahaha anyway.

But thats the way it is guys things get doctored to fit the agenda of the one who is in control......And AG I somewhat disagree on your views about the world and whatnot.....and back in the 50's the population of the planet was at about 4 and a half billion

[The Mad Jackyl]

12th century pope..hmm...are you thinking of Pope Constantine? I've never heard that about the papacy. Constantine was the first pope to really change the rules of the original religion so that he could "convert" pagan-types to Christianity by incorporating their various practices and rituals of the pagans into the Christian religion itself, but significantly downplaying its origin.

[A.G.]

And AG I somewhat disagree on your views about the world and whatnot.....and back in the 50's the population of the planet was at about 4 and a half billion

I read it was 2. I’m not positive, but even if it was 4, you still got a 2 billion increase in only 50 years. That’s WAY too much. The problem is that due to our medical progress “death” has been tampered with. People live longer. Yet “birth” is not regulated at all. As the result you got overpopulation. If you don’t think that humanity is over-populated than... well... I really can’t imagine how you can think that.

Which part do you disagree with? Overpopulation? Name one other (comparable in size) animal that is measured in billions. And each one “WANTS”. Fact is, given how much of the natural resources and average modern man consumes, there is just not enough for everyone.

This actually goes back to an older topic I posted her a few years back (and it also wasn’t too popular) about my theory that humanity is actually a virus. If you look at it as a whole, humanity has all the traits of virus/infection. Without going in depth on it, think about the most general question. What role do we play as part of planet Earth? We use it to grow and we consume everything in our way. We change the natural balances everywhere we live (Think of everyone in a desert state like Arizona having a pool. You have any idea what that moisture does to the overall mechanics of the region? Yeah, exactly!). In short, we do NOT benefit the planet and poison everything we touch.

[shadowf0x]

Naaah truthfully humanity isnt overpopulated its the fact that we waste way to many resources and how this country (U.S.A) has been molded to cater to a bunch of lazy f...ckin people, I mean look at it everything that is imported is....well imported from somewhere else food, gasoline(Obviously), cars, etc......wtf do we export from here??...hmmm guns, missles, bullets, bombs.....yeaah anyway though the problems in this world come from industrialized countries not so much the number of people on the planet. And the problem is that we as humans are tapping into the same areas for our energy needs even though we arent the biggest planet in the solar system the Earth in terms of size is stiiil pretty f...ckin big and there are plenty of places where there are untapped energy and food reserves....the problem also comes in is big governments and politics and bureaucracy....and hipocrisy, and....well GREED by big game corporations.

The bible says that when the end of the world comes people will give up their old ways of life and pick up the ways of old and begin to work the land again like how it used to be back in Ancient times. Thats the way it should be really.

[A.G.]

The bible says that when the end of the world comes people will give up their old ways of life and pick up the ways of old and begin to work the land again like how it used to be back in Ancient times. Thats the way it should be really.

Exactly why I don’t like the Bible. You see, people get all excited about that... why? Have you ever REALLY worked the land? See, I like the convinience of a supermarket or a resaturant. I like to have some pizza on the way home. I like to relax on a comfy couch infront of my big screen TV or surf the net at any time. Reliable medic care anyone? I don’t want to spend my day plowing a field, skinning animals so I can eat them, or fighting off attackers with a bow and arrow, and living 'till I'm 40 (if I'm LUCKY!). Sorry, not my thing. And in truth, people that get all that excited the “old ways” have no clue exactly that that means. When I went to Russia this summer, I spent a weekend at my Granmothers summer house, one that I used live at every summer before moving to US. A great example of “roughing” it. No plumbing and you grow you food. I would NOT want to live that way. I like my showers and the comfort of modern life. And there is nothing wrong with progress as long as it is not overwhelming (like accomodating 6.5 billion people) to an extent of harming the world around us.

I do agree with the GREED part, no questions there. But if there were less people (and some controlled responsibility) then people that are here would all live fairly comfortably. You should not have the separation of “haves” and the “have-nots”. But at the same time people should not have the choice to just “waste” their life and not contribute to the overall society. Either way, we need not 6.5 billion. 1 billions would be pleanty.

[anomaly]

it's really interesting how visuals can even affect memory. I mean are these people just convinced that their memories are wrong and lie, or are these false memories actually brought about by a photo?

It's really scary how that works. I mean with that, you could use photos to get innocent people to confess to murder or back up false testimonies. Even probably completely change how people remember an incident.

[The Mad Jackyl]

I think that photos are less questionable than memories because they are more presentable (as in, they are physically present) and a picture says it all at once. A memory may take time to drag details out of or to piece things together exactly how they were. Memories are ever-shifting self-perceptions of things which differ from person to person. Your mind is biased because it bases what you remember about something depending on the patterns your mind is used to seeing or what your brain may determine is most important to remember. While several people's memories of the same person, place or thing may differ, they could all be right, but for whatever reason each person remembers something different because they remember only the things which to them seemed most important. Reality truly is subjective, then perhaps. Scary, huh!?

[shadowf0x]

Im pretty damn sure governments that have the ability use those means to brainwash people. Like Sirhan Sirhan or something along those lines.

AG, Its hardwork growing your own crops but once you get used to the regimen it gets pretty easy...and yes ive worked the land before in my mother's country which is in Panama. But back to the first subject I would like to know where my food comes from truthfully I dont know where the f...ck lets say that piece of meat you buy at the supermarket REALLY came from, and with the whole spinach thing and E-Coli and all that sh*t....I know what you mean yea we live in the 21st century compared to KINGS, EMPERORS, and PHAROAH's, from Ancient times now we live even better then them but still somethings are better when you do it yourself.

[A.G.]

That is true, but you only looking at a VERY small part of it. The joy of growing your own food... but what EVERYTHING else? That’s what the Bible followers don’t seem to think about. They only see the beauty of a select few aspects of it. Yes, there is a lot of downsides to our modern ways, but one should not forget the downsides of living the old way either. You have to remember that if the world was plunged into a stone age right now, not many would actually know how to live off the land. As such you will have chaos!

And you claim you know about working the land... yes, in a controlled environment. The world you speak of will not have that. So you plow a field and grow some vegies... big deal! You still enjoy plumbing, internet, TV, medicine, police protection, and more or less controlled urban environments. But the world you speak of will have NONE of that. Every moment you consider to be your free time will be spend trying to NOT die.

I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with you. You’re not looking at the big picture.

[cernex]

I think the best example about this sort of things (about history been diferent from one part to another) is the case of the world-famous (and at the same time, literally unknown "for real") Vlad Tepes Dracul, better known as the guy in which the "Dracula" (Brahm Stroker) novel is based on.

Since the story is quite large itself, and just one wiki away, it's enough to say that while in the whole world he's known as a crazy sadistic maniac, in Rumania (his home country) he's seen as a just and strict leader, and a hero in countering the Ottoman expansion.

[anomaly]

madjackyl said:

I think that photos are less questionable than memories because they are more presentable (as in, they are physically present) and a picture says it all at once. A memory may take time to drag details out of or to piece things together exactly how they were. Memories are ever-shifting self-perceptions of things which differ from person to person. Your mind is biased because it bases what you remember about something depending on the patterns your mind is used to seeing or what your brain may determine is most important to remember. While several people's memories of the same person, place or thing may differ, they could all be right, but for whatever reason each person remembers something different because they remember only the things which to them seemed most important. Reality truly is subjective, then perhaps. Scary, huh!?

"Creating context" at its best.