Creation vs Evolution

[A.G.]

OK, so I was chatting with people at work about this and I'm downright SHOCKED to see how many people believe in the fairy tales of the Bible! OMG!

Like the Dinosaur thing here:
www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs

Geez! "Ooh, the scientists don't have all the facts and use imagination. So evolution is just a theory, a theory with holes." Really? REALLY?! Oh, well if it has holes maybe it's because we can only work with what we currently have found! But it's so much easier to say that, "Oh, it was f...cking magic."

I believe in a higher power, but I've seen nothing in discussing Adam & Eve, The Flood, or Dinosaurs to show me that the Bible is credible.

Thoughts?

[The Mad Jackyl]

That link is hilarious. I like how at one point they say dinosaurs never existed, but then later say Adam discovered them because he was the first man. How in the world someone can believe the earth is only 6,000 years old is preposterous. There are cultures older than 6,000 years old of - you guessed it - people! There is no sound reasoning behind the universe being 6,000 years old. None. What about the spreading out of cosmic masses at a constant rate? Travelling in reverse, those same cosmic masses could not reach an epicenter in 6,000 years. That's a blink of an eye in terms of cosmic time. Itwould take billions of years for those far off masses which are perpetually travelling outwards to reach their current positions.

Surely there are some things out there that have me thinking there's a higher power, but that higher power did not limit us to only 6,000 years ago. The audacity to even claim the word "dinosaur" is not in the bible as a way to prove that dinosaurs did not exist is ridiculous because it is of greek origins meaning "terrible lizard", something of which the ancient greeks had no basis for creating such an amalgamation of two words in the first place because humans and dinosaurs were millions of years apart. There was simply no need for anyone to think of a "terrible lizard". These types of thinkers also fail every single time to acknowledge that the inbreeding that would have to occur for a handful of people to repopulate the entire earth is not a stable survival strategy. It's fundamental biology: if you have only a handful of genes, there can be only so much variation in each occuring generation. How would one account for all the different skin colors and ethnicities if only a handful of people repopulated the earth? You must be telling me that on that Ark were a couple people representing asiatic or mongoloid people, a couple angaloid people, and a few negroid people as well? And that out of those few people, they somehow created the MASSIVE genetic variation we see the world over in just 6,000 years? When too many people carry the same genes, it makes for a weak gene pool and as a result you get hideous conditions of retardation. That's what royal families in Europe used to do for the longest time until the royal-blooded people interbred with one another so much that their legitimate heirs began to become drooling trogolodytes with infantile child-minds who could not successfully take positions of power because of this. Genes need variation to adapt. If not, they suffer from being symmetrical and all in all it's a flawed plan. I could go on for days.

[A.G.]

Faith is vital, but organized religion is bad news!

[Black Snake]

The Bible=You being trolled by the people that wrote it.

[cernex]

I don't believe in the Old Testament, only in the New one.

Why the heck would I listen to sheets of papers that said slavery is right, anyway?

[trustburger]

in b4 shadowf0x

[shadowf0x]

Sept 20, 2008 6:07:04 GMT -5 trustburger said:

in b4 shadowf0x

lol whaaat?

Anyway evidence of an intelligent creator are all around us, and plus just because I dont want to get into a lengthy conversation because I dont have the time...science has PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt that for thigns to come along they have to be CREATED!!!!!.......plus evolution is a bunch of garbage, there is a plethora of information about the human body that indicates WE NEVER CAME FROM THE OCEAN!!!! such for example the anatomy of the eye, we have special reflectors within our cornea that allows us to see light in focused waves so that we can then see objects, well every known oceanic creature has been studied and its been found that they have nothing resembling what we have in terms of how the eyes work, that is an indicator right there once again that we folks never came from the ocean and we were blessed with another intelligent design by someone I like to call GOD!

[A.G.]

Yeah... why research things and understand them when you can just say, "Poof! It was magic!!!"

Geez...

plus evolution is a bunch of garbage

You know, that's why I dislike religion. I support evolution but I also have firm belief in a higher power. NOT the Bible, but a higher power. Not one in the same. But unlike the close-minded religious folks I keep my mind open to everything. Not just the dogmatic, narrow views of some manuscript that may or may not be real. To say evolution is garbage is only to justify your own ignorance.

WE NEVER CAME FROM THE OCEAN

Were you there? OK then. That's the problem with Bible-thumpers, you never think long term. Eyes?! Yeah, no kidding that a current human can't live in water! But that's not what we were at the start. The process takes millions of years. You talk about "creator" signs all around us, evolution is all around us!

But unfortunetly when you LIMIT your self to fairy tale stories written by people who knew next to NOTHING about the world around them you tend not to look at the big picture. There is no reason why Creation and Evolution were not one in the same. Yes, something does have to be created at the start, VERY True. But not in the "Poof Magic" way that religions tend to present. These stories were written by people who KNEW the Earth was flat. Who KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe. Who KNEW God was up on the cloud. NONE of that was true. So I can't believe things like that.

[The Mad Jackyl]

Suggested reading for participants in this discussion should include Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene". It really does a great justice toward explaning a lot (even more than you're interested in knowing) about how evolution works and really nails the "primordial soup" topic that is brought up a lot in these types of conversations.

shadowfox, the thing about the eyes you went on about shows that you don't have a solid understanding of evolution. Evolution happens by chance by random mutations, just like how cancer begins in the body. Its all well that we don't have any sort of vision like predecessors that came from the ocean. That doesn't explain random mutations. Scientific verification of mutations exist, no doubt there, right. Well, sometime's its a good mutation and sometimes it's a bad mutation. If a sea-dwelling creature's chromosomes were altered by mutations that might exist because of say, environmental impact or what have you, and the mutation helped that creature see better and was able to outperform creatures with the 'other' type of vision, well guess which genotype would come to dominate the gene pool? That eyesight might help the creature survive better by being able to escape predators more easily than its other non-mutated brethern and would therefore have more chances to reproduce and increase its share of the gene pool. Another mutation might occur in a different or same species though, such as albinism or lack of camouflage pigmentation. That would make the creature stand out more to predators and that genotype would have a difficult time passing on its genetic information to further generations and would likely die out while the other camouflaged species was better suited for survival. It's all about random mutations that turn out to work better than previously existing species.

You might ask then, why are there still people with bad eyesight who wear glasses? Isn't sight the most needed and valued sense that man has? How it that bad eyesight is still pretty prevalent in our population? Doesn't that throw off everything that I just said? Simply, no. Because we are human, we have allowed that trait to be passed on more without many negative consequences because humans are highly adaptable and invented things like eyeglasses which counteract such conditions. People are continually passing on the gene for bad eyesight because such inventions allow them to still reproduce.

[Black Snake]

plus evolution is a bunch of garbage

I recall there being a guy named Charles Darwin who wrote a giant book on how evolution occurs.

[A.G.]

People are continually passing on the gene for bad eyesight because such inventions allow them to still reproduce.

BINGO!

[A.G.]

And you know, a picture is always worth a thousand words. You can't look at the similarities and still say there isn't a connection:

[shadowf0x]

People have the misunderstanding that somehow evolution and god are connected....no they are not. I wont bring the bible into this although its the biggest reference as how we truly came along, ofcourse its hard for any of you to believe because you have no faith and I MEAN FAITH.

Plus the thing about the human eyeball and its inner workings I got from a book that is completely non-biased about religion vs evolution. I will get this book as soon as I can dish out the extra 30 bucks, and i'll show you guys all the proof they have come up with that without a shadow of a doubt we were created, the earth is old OLD, but we humans are not, plus there is scientific evidence of the creatures that they found in Southern China, in 1998 they were excavated and since they were extremely well preserved these creatures were carbon dated and were even older than the dinosaurs, as these creatures were studied they found no evidence of a relative to these new creatures (Which by the way they found more than one type of creature) any signs of evolution, absolutely nothing these creatures came than went without a clue as to what happened to them...hmmm, God had many many millenia to try out his ideas, we humans have come to be the most interesting experiment of his/hers in all these years.

Also it shows how much you let the bullsh*t get into your head, a relationship with god is just you and him, not you the priest, the bishop, arch bishop, pope then God NO NO NO ITS YOU AND GOD ONLY, if you have feelings of doubt as to your existense and where you are going to end up then its time you sit down and think about what is your relationship to God, if you feel that loneliness only can the Lord, fill you up with the love you seek in your life, that place in your heart where nothing earthly can fill you only he can. Plus, remember this all of you the day you lay on your death bed after you have lived a long life (God willing and you allow it) you'll be praying your f...cking head off hoping you end up infront of the pearly gates...instead of a lake of fire next to the morning star....

[A.G.]

You see, that's where you are wrong. And I will say, "WRONG". You see things like this: Bible = GOD = Only Truth.

That's false. Christianity is FALSE! Look at Jews! It's essentially the SAME religion, MUCH OLDER, and yet the Christians got the nerve to say they are right. Think about it, the main difference between the two is the PERSEPTION of Jesus. That's pretty much it! One believes Jesus was the son of God while the other simply believes he was a phisopher/wise man. Heck, the entire Christian religion is based on worshiping a Jew!!! And yet you disagree with the religion of the Jewish people!!! Wow! And it doesn't stop there! Ther are several forms of Christianity. Now how the deuce does that work?! "Oh, I belive this part of the Bible, but not this..." You can't do that! And that further proves that religion is false! Any religion is simply a persepective. And while that makes it a TRUTH in YOUR mind, it does NOT make it a FACT.

And that is my biggest gripe with religious people. You pick and choose what you want to believe in and then shun everything else, EVEN things directly connected with your religion! That is where it looses all credibility, dude. And that type of mindset carries over into other aspects of your life. You are on a computer, on a forum... all technology... all products of science. Not magic, science. You accept your PC, your TV, your car and whatever else as factual products of science. And yet, you feel that carbon dating is nothing to of importance! Wow! The same sciene that gave you all the things that you use in your daily life is telling you that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Who are you to pick and choose which FACTS you want to believe?

You say that you can't put God and Evolution together... Why?! Look at the complexity of the world around you! I'm sorry, but I'm not kid enough to believe in a magical dude on a cloud. But that does not mean I don't have faith in a greater being. In fact, I'm a lot further along that path than you. You only accept and cling to a single, NARROW view point that you were either hammered with when you were a child or something you grabbed out of desperation during a hardship. I like to look at various points of view, as they do exist. There are many religions in the world, they all have the TRUTH and they are all sure that their path is the only true one. But that doesn't make it so.

This is the 21st century, my friend. The Bible was written by the people who KNEW the Earth was flat. Who KNEW the Earth was the Center of the Univers. I'm sorry, but folks like that do not qualify to tell someone today how to live and what to believe in. I mean, you talk about perception... if I got into a time machine and went back into Biblical days with my PS3 I would be hailed as a God! And yes, there would be books written about a supreme being that could "talk to all across the land and fight demons with magic!" C'mon!

[Otty]

Religion to me is not about proofing 'this and that' to others, or putting limitations on yourself. It's about giving you inner strength, peace of mind, etc.

I've never lived by any book, not even that of the law. I create my own way's in life, not limited by anything. I've always kept an open mind for everything, how els can you have respect for another who beliefs in something els?

All I have to say to people who read the Bible is to absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is specifically your own. Do that with everything in life, and remember to always be you. Have thoughts, have questions.. about everything.

Eventually there is only one person you have to belief in, and I think you know who... yourself.



BTW, watch this video of 2 Mormons who try to introduce their book. They get OWNED so hard. Hilarious ;D

nl.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXhSMEzQSs