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Post by A.G. on Jan 9, 2017 1:40:46 GMT -5
After finishing Phantom Pain I decided to replay MPW. It's been a while. The last time I played this game was Fall 2012 when the Legacy Collection came out. I spent a lot of time with it, finishing all missions and unlocking everything. Anyway, it was time to fire it up.
Today I went from the start to fighting Pupa. Right out of the gate the setting bothered me. Something about the tropical setting in South America just felt strange. The opening chapter starts on a beach. There is absolutely no tension! None! I'm on a beach with an army backing me up with supply and fire support. And if you use the multiplayer function you can have up to 3 buddies with you. The tense, Die Hard style feeling is nowhere to be found. MGS3 managed to convey that isolated feeling even though the Russian jungle wasn't creepy looking. I know MPW is a PSP game and graphics were limited but even Ghost Babel had more tension.
"You can't move while laying down! I repeat, you can't move while laying down!" Oh just f...ck you! We could crawl since MG2. Just wrong!
The gameplay in general is awkward. They added a lot of MGS4 tools but the limited system handles poorly. Truthfully your best bet is to just tranq everyone. Sneaking and CQC are pointlessly hard to use. Peeking around corners is hard. I found it strange that MSX and PS1 titles had better sneaking ability.
Huey is an interesting problem. Originally I hated that they made him an exact duplicate of Otacon in MPW. But now when you see him in Phantom Pain that seems the lesser of two evils. I can't believe they changed him that much. The character is completely different! Completely! It clearly illustrated that Kojima never really knew where to go with this character.
Dialogue. It was great to hear David voice Snake. After a few weeks of Sutherland, some Hayter really brings you back. But though the voice acting was good, the actual script isn't. The Miller "mother of god!" line about nukes just felt so cheesy. This circles around to the lack of a tense feeling. Even with AI tech and nukes around me, I never felt any sense of urgency. The feel is all wrong. This is a similar issue I had in the wo setting of MGS5. Afghanistan felt much more tense and exciting than Africa. Maybe it's the Russians...
Anyway, moving on to the next chapter.
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588 
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Post by fgdj2000 on Jan 9, 2017 15:28:30 GMT -5
I actually didn't feel this feeling of isolation since MGS4. MGS4 was a major game changer and now that MGSV is out you can clearly see the first stepping stones towards the new formula. The acts are a clear precursor to the mission based structure, the Drebin shop is a precursor to Motherbase and the support team. Even the open environments foreshadow MGSV's open world.
So, I guess the series lost something. There is no real sense of conquering the environment anymore.
Gameplay: I found it always decent. It is essentially a trimmed version of the MGS4 control scheme. That there's no crouching is a bummer and no dragging of soldiers, but I can cut it some slack here, because it was on a hand held and they had to repurpose the face buttons into camera controls and lost a lot of buttons. I don't understand what you find awkward about cqc. I thought it worked better than in MGS3 (where I ended up accidentally cutting a lot of throats).
And you remark that the MSX controls were better is just ridiculous. It's like saying the rules of Ludo are better than of Chess or the rules of Crazy Eights are better than Skat.
I won't get started on anything you said about the characters and setting in PW because we'll only go in circles again.
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Post by A.G. on Jan 9, 2017 21:44:56 GMT -5
Well, actually MPO was the origin. Chapter missions, recruiting, unit management. It started there. The act separation in MGS4 was more of an extension of the mission split we saw in MGS3 rather than the structure of MPW. Also, MGS4 was hardly anything resembling open world. It was just as linear as 1-3.
The isolated feeling was definitely in MGS4. Some acts more than others. It's totally there in acts 3, 4 and 5. Though acts 1 and 2 did have a different vibe, likely due to an active war zone.
I never said MSX controls were better. I said that sneaking ability was better. And I stand by that. Naturally I'm talking about MG2. I compare the ability and tools I have with the enemy patrols and map design. In MPW it is not practical to do anything but tranq. I can't crawl or effectively lean against walls to look around. Even the aim function is awkward. Yes, am being harsh. But I'm talking about a 2010 game. Some shortcomings are just not acceptable. As for the fact it was on the PSP... nobody twisted their arm to make that stupid decision.
You really found combat controls comfortable? Switching between weapons is a pain.
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588
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Post by fgdj2000 on Jan 10, 2017 5:44:20 GMT -5
CQC worked actually better for me than tranquing the guards, especially later in the game when they wear headgear. I'd just sneak up to them and knock them out then fulton them. But yes, you tend to abuse the tranq gun a bit. But that's a problem every game since MGS2 shared.
Switching between weapons was a bit uncomfortable, admittedly, mostly because you couldn't pause the game and the menu was very similar to the menu in MGS1-4 where you had to scroll through your items. By contrast in MGSV switching between weapons on the fly was more streamlined and intuitive. But once again I can cut PW some slack because it was build with co-op in mind.
MGS4 act split. Yeah, my comment was actually more applicable to MGSV than MGS PW. In PW it was actually more like MGS3 just split into smaller chunks for portable play.
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Jan 10, 2017 6:04:46 GMT -5
Well, actually MPO was the origin. Chapter missions, recruiting, unit management. It started there. The act separation in MGS4 was more of an extension of the mission split we saw in MGS3 rather than the structure of MPW. Also, MGS4 was hardly anything resembling open world. It was just as linear as 1-3. The isolated feeling was definitely in MGS4. Some acts more than others. It's totally there in acts 3, 4 and 5. Though acts 1 and 2 did have a different vibe, likely due to an active war zone. I never said MSX controls were better. I said that sneaking ability was better. And I stand by that. Naturally I'm talking about MG2. I compare the ability and tools I have with the enemy patrols and map design. In MPW it is not practical to do anything but tranq. I can't crawl or effectively lean against walls to look around. Even the aim function is awkward. Yes, am being harsh. But I'm talking about a 2010 game. Some shortcomings are just not acceptable. As for the fact it was on the PSP... nobody twisted their arm to make that stupid decision. You really found combat controls comfortable? Switching between weapons is a pain. I agree with this. |
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Post by A.G. on Jan 10, 2017 21:30:50 GMT -5
Did MPW Co-op ever make it online?
I still don't get why they made it on a PSP in 2010. That system was just bad.
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Post by A.G. on Jan 10, 2017 23:56:41 GMT -5
So... the second part. The cloud forest was a little short. Barely any sneaking. The best feature is the audio, but I do feel it's directly taken from MGS3. The chopper battle is boring. I like to think of the Hind fight in MGS1. So much more tense. The music, the sounds... not seeing the Hind hiding. Strange to see so much difference with basically the same fight.
Cecile... dear lord... why? The most useless character since Yusuf Norden/Jacobson in MG2. In any case, she succumbed to exhaustion? She was practically right outside the lab! Barely a walk! Things like that annoy me. That's just sloppy writing not matching game design.
Dialogue with Strangelove is overacted. Felt very forced and unnatural. People here just don't talk to each other very realistically. And what was up with that kneeling tobacco sniff he did before entering the lab? Looked very strange given the conversation they were having.
Chrysalis battle was enjoyable, best in the game. In fact, it's the only mecha in this game I didn't hate. I never understood why they didn't put the mammal pod on it. Seems like a flying machine would be far more useful than Peace Walker. They could've put a nuke on it. Maybe it lands to get into launch mode.
I love the art of Shinkawa, and certainly see the parts he drew for the cutscenes. But Wood's art is bad. Flat out hate it! As an artist I find it very sloppy.
I feel like the biggest issue in the look of the game is that there are too many competing styles. The main character models, like Snake, are very detailed. But the backgrounds are very much lacking, making everything look like a cardboard set in a high school play. The cutscenes are a drawings in most cases mixed with detailed models in others. Even the drawn art varies between two very different artists. I prefer to have everything match. I'm ok dropping detail quality to keep the feel consistent, like MGS1.
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Post by A.G. on Jan 12, 2017 23:58:01 GMT -5
So I stopped Peace Walker and the credits rolled. I'll save Zeke for tomorrow. I really liked the fee of the missile base. Such a pity that area is so small. More of the game needed to take place there. The area where Peace Walker was housed was good too. OK, so where Metal Gear always shined was details, right? And that's the main issue I have with MPW. How does MSF go from this on November 4th:  To this on November 23rd:   I mean... c'mon! Also, was Big Boss going back and forth between the mission and the base? There are so many holes here! If he has support around him (fire, support, Fulton), then why use a horse to chase Peace Walker? Why not use your fleet of choppers?! Seriously! He has a full army and he is squaring off with Peace Walker using a rifle? Just hate sh*t like that! When I see issues like that it kills any emotion they try to add to the scene. I'll finish the game tomorrow and give some final thoughts. But man... what was he thinking?! |
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Jan 13, 2017 7:23:27 GMT -5
Well, that's the problem isn't it? The story elements are sometimes sacrificed to have fun gameplay. It isn't realistic to chase PW with a horse, or to fight the machine with a carbine but crap like that happens to make the replay value skyrocket.
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Post by A.G. on Jan 14, 2017 0:25:05 GMT -5
Gag! There is nothing attractive about the gameplay of MPW. Nothing!
Anyway, just finished the game. The Zeke fight is absolutely awful. That song?! Why the f...ck... and how did Paz deliver her final speech in a container full of water with a tube in her mouth. God... just so bad. At every point excuses have to be made to justify this game's faults.
On the final secret tape we learn that in 1974 Big Boss still didn't know about the twins. Strange... I thought that's why he left the Oatriots...
Gameplay: 5/10. The decision to make this a portable game was stupid. There was no reason for it in 2010. It's needlessly limited. The guards are downright lifeless. The way the move, fight, react... it's just so primitive. Even in MGS1 you had life in the Genome so,diets. The coughed, sneezed, stretched... Hell, even in the MSX guards would fall asleep! anything to give you a feeling of them being people. I felt like I played a game that was a parody of a Metal Gear game.
Visuals/Audio: 5/10. It looks fine for a PSP game, but that's kinda like winning gold in the Special Olympics. I don't see why this needed to be on the PSP in 2010. 2004-5, I can understand. 2010, just no. I don't mind the main MPW music theme, but the majority of the soundtrack isn't very good. A few tracks were ok, but it just didn't sound like a Metal Gear game.
Game Design: 7/10. Much better structure than MGS5 and a logical flow to the story and missions. I get the need for a chapter structure with the game being on a handheld system, but again, why in 2010? I don't like the To Be Continued message. It kills the tension before the fight. I also hate how I can just reload before each mission. No sense of saving your ammo or rations. And if I run out, delivery express is just a push button away. Solid variety of missions though and I enjoyed some of the Monster Hunter missions.
Story/Characters: 7/10. Ironically you be more story in the tapes than the game. In fact, I enjoyed listening to those than playing the main story. Huey is completely different from MGS5, but far too close to Otacon. Space story on The Boss was very interesting. This game actually could've used Ocelot. Paz was a strange choice. I never really liked her as the student so the big reveal was rather uneventful. Strangelove was well done, probably the best character in the game. But in general I didn't see the need for this game. The actual story is useless and unbelievable. They built all that in a month? That's the story of Big Boss? Gag!
Overall: 60% D-
If they just waited and developed one game, I think MGS5 may have had a chance. The story of MPW with the gameplay of MGS5 would've worked. Focus on Big Boss first building an army then Outer Heaven with open world gameplay. But whatever... it's done. Overall I can't say that my opinion has changed on this game.
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