Death Stranding - are you getting it?

[A.G.]

Well, it’s almost here! And the reviews are... meh at best. On Metacritic it’s currently sitting at 84, which is below the Portable Ops 87.

Personally, I’m not surprised. Games after Fukushima’s departure were not nearly as strong. And as they went more and more full Kojima the quality dropped. You never go full Kojima. I never had any interest in getting this game. Even if it was good I would likely pass as it’s too sci-fi for my taste and I don’t like open world.

Will anyone else be getting it?

IGN Review:

[fgdj2000]

"The review's are... meh at best"?!

Not the ones I've been watching. From what I've heard, the consensus appears to be that while the game clearly isn't for everyone it is actually pretty good; a slow burn at first, but gets more engaging as it goes on and ultimately is an experience that sticks with you and has some very unique ideas which it executes very well, even if it struggles with "traditional" mechanics focused on combat.

Since quirky and experimental games that aren't perfect, but do something differently and seem to really want to convey something (NieR: Automata, Ico Trilogy, even Red Dead Redemption 2) are my thing, and I like all of Kojima's games that I've played, flaws and all, I'll definitely get it at some point, but I'm not sure whether I'll get it right away... and I'll probably not invest in the life-sized tube-baby that comes with the CE.

As for the game being essentially "just" a hiking simulator: I actually do enjoy more slow-paced and non-combat based gameplay (riding around in RDR2 and being absorbed by the world and reflecting on both the story/ characters and the time period the game was set it, even if nothing was happening, was often more engaging to me than the shootouts) and I think the concept to make traversing the Open World the core mechanic in an open world game, when it usually seems just like filler at best and afterthought at worst in most other games, is really interesting. Also the social strand system is interesting and reminds me of Dark Souls. I appreciate that Kojima thinks about more than just entertaining the player and really manages to convey the feelings he wants to convey not just through story, but also through game design. Let's just say, it's game I want first-hand experience of.

My dilemma is really just Father Time. With how busy I am right now, I really can't seem to fit in a 50 hour game anytime soon...

And then there is also the new Star Wars game which will probably be much shorter and also appears to be really good...

EDIT: 
IGN's review was the only one I watched that gave the game a "bad" assessment, and frankly, I don't really care much for their opinion, since I usually don't enjoy the types of games they praise and their opinions sometimes feel a bit arbitrary... I watched the reviews of GameSpot, Yongyea and SkillUp, Easy Allies (largely made up of the former GameTrailers team) and the German GamePro - all worth checking out if you want a nuanced opinion with a less cynical viewpoint.

[A.G.]

Dipped to 83. I don’t know... haven’t been a fan of his work for 10 years now. And the subject matter is a bit too sci-fi for me. I’m not planning on picking it up.

But curious to hear how you like it if you get to it.

[fgdj2000]

Fair enough. I'll let you know once I get to play it.

[fgdj2000]

Here is a link to a pretty good reviewer, SkillUp. His review is really insightful, I think.

Death Stranding review

[A.G.]

He touches on all the points I initially took away from the previews. Here are my personal issues with it:

Setting and Story - just not a fan of this style in general. I prefer a story that is grounded in reality with a flavor of sci-fi fantasy. That’s what I loved about the Metal Gear series. The more he broke that balance the less I liked it. I know some people hold Snatcher and Policenauts in high regard. I played both and just didn’t care for them at all.

Gameplay - too much gear prep. For me, gaming is more about an escape, not a slavish attachment to reality simulation. One of the many reasons I hated the mother base concept. I want to start a game and play. Not spend hours prepping and maintaining. That’s boring.

Characters - I’ll just say that I watched a lot of Walking Dead and just don’t care for Norman. Plus the character design is just silly.


Again, all personal opinion. But the game doesn’t seem to offer anything I would enjoy. At it’s core it’s an open world game. Which is a turnoff for me in general.

[fgdj2000]

Fair enough. Tastes are different.

I actually never played either Snatcher or Policenauts. I like Sci-Fi, so I think the settings are interesting (especially Snatcher's Blade Runner/ Akira-esque style)... but the point-and-click adventure never... well... clicked with me. 
I might actually give them a try, if they were available without having to import them or having to emulate them. 

I hear you on open world games. I have to admit, I am turned off if I hear a game has a 40+ hour campaign... I don't have the endurance (and now also not the time) to sit that long through a campaign unless it is really gripping me (like Red Dead Redemption 2 and even there I got burned out and took a break for a few weeks). Kojima so far has always managed to hook me, even in MGSV, so there are exceptions.

[A.G.]

I think time is a major factor as we get older. But not just that we have busy lives. When you are younger and haven’t established your life it’s a lot easier to want to get lost in games for lengthy periods of time to escape. But with an established life I don’t crave an escape for the most part. If you are living a life you want to live then games become less important. I noticed that big time around MGS4. 1999-2008 I just about lived in Metal Gear games and frankly this site. If I wasn’t playing I was working on the site or writing here. But around 2009 my career started moving. A house. Marriage. Life! Suddenly the virtual world wasn’t tempting. So yeah, the idea of an 80 hour campaign sounds dreadful. I just have better things to do then go on a virtual hike.

I do find myself looking at my nephew with a critical eye. Just watching the mindless sh*t he plays! Fortnite... ugh! At least with Metal Gear we had something meaningful to take away. But it’s funny how I get all “back in my day” on him. lol

[fgdj2000]

Oh, yeah, definitely. Time also seems to feel shorter the older we get... Think about it. For a 12-year old, three years are 1/4 of his or her life. For a 30-something year old it's 1/10, for a 60 year old, it's 5%. (if I screwed up the math I'm sorry, it's late and I'm exhausted).

Yeah, until recently I was still studying, so I had a fair amount of time. Between spending time with my fiancé, our numerous animals (dogs & ponys), taking walks, visiting family and going to university I usually had time and spreading out the newest Assassin's Creed game and maybe another game I liked wasn't that big of a deal. Now, I have no time. Playing games in the evening also gets me awake, which is not good if you have to get up at 5 a.m., so I prefer reading or watching TV as a final pre-sleep activity.

So, I usually wait until the holidays, where I do have time, and play a game that I'm really interested in.

I do find myself looking at my nephew with a critical eye. Just watching the mindless sh*t he plays! Fortnite... ugh! At least with Metal Gear we had something meaningful to take away. But it’s funny how I get all “back in my day” on him. lol

I hear you. And games have become cheap... you can play Fortnite for free! In my classes, the kids are playing instant-gratifying smartphone games... and who can blame them? Who has the money to buy their kid a 500,- console with 60-70,- games, but the privileged?
Still, some games today are really meaningful - Red Dead Redemption is a beautiful tale about a family breaking apart, a leader loosing his sanity, a ruffian facing his mortality and a way of life facing its doom. It also made me appreciate the meaning of the Western frontier in American culture more... having it almost experienced myself, spending hours on horseback, riding through beautiful forests, green meadows and rough deserts, camping at night sharing a fire with fellow travelers, only relying on yourself and your colt.

And even though Assassin's Creed is shallow, by the numbers and boring (which I am saying as a former fan), at least you learn something about history. Games feel weirdly safe now. Even a game like Days Gone - destroyed by the gaming press - is really a nice-looking, functional competent narrative driven game that ticks all the boxes... just not as great at its narrative than The Last of Us. Which is why games like The Last Guardian (2016), NieR: Automata (2017), Death Stranding and even the upcoming Shenmue III feel like a breath of fresh air with their unique concepts, even if the execution is sometimes janky... but those games usually have something to convey... and that's the true value of any form of storytelling for me... even if I admittedly enjoy some mindless open-world-map-clearing myself occasionally.

[fgdj2000]

Just a short little heads-up: I've bought the game and played about 2-3 hours. So far I like it, but I haven't gone far.

The story and world: So far, great. There is some Kojima cringe like exposition-heavy dialogue, weird names ("I'm Sam Porter Bridges, I'm a porter and build metaphorical and later actual bridges by delivering packages"; "I'm President Strand... I want to connect the world with figurative strands"). However, I like it a lot more than MGSV. The characters feel real, the story is simple but has a lot of room for working in complex themes. The world itself is really interesting with the right mixture 0f the supernatural and science-fiction. Very interesting and very unique post-apocalypse. The game is definitely a lot more cutscene heavy than MGSV so far, but I think there will eventually be moments when you spend hours playing without a single cutscene.

Gameplay: Well, there is not much to say, yet, that hasn't been said in any review. Sam is responsive, but also can fall down if you carry too heavy a load and are not careful. Traversing is really a puzzle that has you organize your packages, find a route, improvise and execute. It's interesting and different and seems to have a lot of potential, but also requires some patience and I think it will eventually get tedious. There is also an auto-pack option with no downside, so, you might just want to do that. BTs are terrifying in concept, but I found it fairly easy to evade them so far, but, alas, I've only run into them twice. I've also encountered human enemies from a distance and shortly after they started stalking me, time fall started a cutscene that had them leave the area.
There are also safe houses which remind me a lot of the helicopter in MGSV, just that there are a few more things to do than sit and listen to audio tapes and manage your mother base.

Overall I'm quite happy with the game. Let's see where the journey goes.
Can I recommend it? Yeah, if you like Sci Fi and games that are more slow paced and less action focused. It helps if you can get into games like the Team Ico Trilogy or NieR: Automata (which has more action, but similar weirdness).

Anyway, have a nice day.

[fgdj2000]

So, I‘ve just finished the first Boss fight. It was less frustrating that he ones in MGSV.
I think, I actually really like this game. I can see how this game is off-putting to people, don’t get me wrong, but playing it feels great. It’s not exactly difficult. Sneaking through BT-territory is as Nerv-wrecking as some of the levels in MGSV, but far shorter (so far). The main hiking/ delivery gameplay is great tbh, because it’s kind of easy and relaxing, yet you still have to pay attention to what you are doing. Same with the Boss fight. It’s not as punishing as Dark souls, but you still have to pay attention to what you are doing.
I find the world and the characters and the story really fascinating, despite hokey and overblown expository dialogue and weird names like Deadman and Die-Hardman and Fragile (a woman who is part of an Organisation called „Fragile“, like her!).
Also, all of the trailer-songs are actually in the game... and more great songs.

Last but not least there’s the connection-feature. Once again, it is really a cool feeling coming across signs, constructions and equipment that other players actually left. And leaving stuff you don’t need behind or make something to help others is just... it’s cheesy to say, but it’s a great feeling. It’s the game that actually makes helping other players a core mechanic.

Anyway, I really like this game and can at least recommend giving it a try when it’s on a sale or for rent or if you can borrow it from a friend.

The least I can say is, it‘s more cohesive and more complete than MGSV.
This game to me also proves just how much Kojima was hindered by the Metal Gear framework he apparently was forced to work in and that the break up with Konami really took a toll on MGSV.

[A.G.]

Glad you are liking the game! There was definitely a lot of pressure on Kojima to deliver and prove he isn’t just the Metal Gear guy. But I do wonder if he will be able to reach those heights again. While the general consensus for this game is OK to good, that’s far cry from the heights of the MGS games that were great to legendary. Time will tell.


I still want to know more about Konami vs Kojima. I don’t buy the whole evil Konami bit. In those situations there is enough blame on both sides. Lets take MGS3 and MGS4. His general comments were he was done after MGS2 but “had to” lead both because the team wasn’t ready. Well problem is, Kojima is a micromanager. Every documentary confirms it without a shadow of a doubt. He could’ve been a producer, like on Ghost Babel. Like on ZOE. Those games turned out fine. I don’t buy it. If he really wanted to work on other projects, it would’ve happened. Konami would not be opposed to him producing while creating a new IP. But for me, the Kojima bullsh*t and lies become evident after MGS4. Peace Walker! That’s all Kojima! After saying he was done with Metal Gear he goes right in to tell an in-between story on the PSP! No way was that a Konami mandate. Nobody would require him to make a game for the dated PSP in 2010! The system already soundly lost its battle against Nintendo and the smart phones were a thing. No business would require to pull your team resources to build a game that is guaranteed to not be a financial success being released on a dying system. He wanted it! As we go into MGS5, I really doubt he was forced here as well. Given his disagreements wit Konami, it was clear they did not approve of him working on that project. He proved to take too long and be very costly with his development. And by that point the glory days of the series were gone. So I just don’t buy the whole Kojima is a victim story. I think he was a stubborn micromanager that wouldn’t let anyone else shine and gradually became a bad investment for the company. And the truth is, after MGS3 he was out of steam. Metal Gear started trying to be like others instead of being itself. MGS4 tried to be a shooter. Peace Walker was Monster Hunter. MGS5 was open world. And in all cases he games didn’t achieve the legendary status that MGS1-3 did.

[fgdj2000]

Hard to say, really, because neither side is really talking about it. As for MGS PW on PSP: Remember, the PSP was very successful in Japan and like the PS2, big hits can still happen at the end of a console lie cycle with the next console on the horizon. Personally, I think MGS PW was really a passion project again, unlike MGS4. As for MGSV: I remember that Kojima really wanted to push the FOX Engine, which was supposed to become a universal tool for Konami to develop all kinds of games for all kinds of platforms. Even PES used the engine. MGSV or Project OGRE was just going to be the first big release, but Konami then started focusing on the Not-really-gambling market (since gambling is forbidden in Japan and you get prices when winning at a Pachinko parlor and can then sell them at nearby pawn shops for real money) and console gaming and with the FOX Engine became obsolete to them. So, MGSV had to pay the bills for the engine and I think was eventually rushed to completion.

Death Stranding is a weird game, but it feels more complete than MGSV which lends credence to the assessment that MGSV's "unfinished" state wasn't really on Kojima, but on outside factors within the company.

I also do think Kojima was unable to develop something totally different, as long as he had to keep making Metal gear games, in part because of the way Konami was organized and probably also because he is kind of a control freak who couldn't trust his employees, or maybe, because his employees actually were incompetent without his leadership.

Alas, all this cannot really be proven or disproven and I don't remember where I read what, but that's generally the gist of it from the coverage I've read on the topic.

I don't need Kojima to be on top of the industry to like his games. I just appreciate his unique vision on game design and how he usually makes things that shouldn't work on paper, actually work (at least for me).

[fgdj2000]

I know this thread is old, but I didn’t want to start a new one. So, I am currently at the halfway mark of the game and man, does it pick up!

MILD SPOILERS
So, I recently ran into Cliff Unger, Mads Mikkelsen‘s character, and this was on a surreal World War I battlefield where he attacked me with his 4 BT-soldiers. Sam got weapons and it was a full blown shootout!

Next thing After that I am making a delivery across a vast mountain area and there are terrorists who are shooting at me and I am using a speed sceleton and it all becomes a mad dash for the finish line.

So, my current delivery had me taking a Bomb to a mountain area, so hard impacts are a no-go. So, pack my backpack accordingly, put the bomb at the safest place, start driving in a vehicle until I come across a terrorist camp. They incapacitat my vehicle, I remove the bomb, engage the terrorist - not successfully, since I didn‘t bring a weapon - stupid of me - get killed, have a near death experience, return to the land of the loving, but now all my stuff is gone, so I sneak into the terrorist camp MGSV style, get my stuff back including the valuable cargo, make it to another vehicle and leave the terrorists‘ area. So, now I leave the vehicle behind and cross a river, which costs me a lot of stamina. Needless to say, Sam is exhausted now, but luckily another player has created a safe house nearby - what a relief! - and I can rest and regain strength. Next I climb a massive mountain, make it to the snow, which is dangerous, since if I am not careful, I can easily slip and fall and destroy my fragile cargo along with failing the mission, however I can get around BT territory. So I come across a cliff and luckily, I did bring a climbing hook and can easily climb down. Then some very relaxing music starts playing signaling me I‘ve made it through the worst. I come across some weird structures and eventually make it to the next major city and can deliver my cargo. However for story reasons the city refuses to connect to the network, but I do get a few things from one of the guys in a private locker, such as ladders, climbing hooks and a bola gun. So, after a short test, I make my way back, but this time, much more BTs, but for a small corridor on the map - so I make my way there.

SPOILERS END

This game looks like just walking from A to B, but Kojima really manages to make arguably the most boring mechanic in open world games an incredibly engaging experience. On top of that, the story has some really hard hitting stuff to offer and even seems to steer in a direction that explains what happened at the „Death stranding“, the cataclysmic event that caused all this.

Honestly, I am admittedly a bit of a fanboy, but for me Kojima just manages to nail it every time.

[fgdj2000]

After a year, I'm in the endgame of Death Stranding. Note, that this didn't have to do anything with the game being boring for me, more a mixture of wanting to savor the experience and not having much time to play (despite the lockdown) and also getting hooked on 2018's Spider-Man and even after five years still getting occasionally hooked on all the side-content in The Witcher 3.

Having beaten the sort-of-final boss (kind of the equivalent of Peace Walker's Chapter 4 ending, or MGSV's chapter 1 ending), I want to give a little heads-up/ impressions/ addressing misconceptions of the game.

SPOILERS, but if you don't want to play the game anyway, do you care?

So, A.G. might have loved all the sh*t going on in Chapter 9: Higgs, since it was almost like an MGS-best of. First of all, you have to cross a tar belt where you instantly sink after a few meters of wading in. How do you do it? Classic Kojima-lateral thinking. If you are caught by BTs (the ghosts in the game), they drag you to fight a mini-boss, and one feature is, that the area is covered in knee-high tar and floating buildings that suddenly appear. Well, in this area, you have to let yourself get caught by BTs and bosses will appear as well as... floating buildings! On which you can make your way across the tar belt and the game suddenly feels more like a postapocalyptic Mario 3D. Next you are in a BT-infested city, which basically plays like MGS4's Outer Haven with enemies at every corner in a tightly packed corridor. Then comes a boss, which is a giant BT, where you have to shoot (with a rocket launcher!) at weak points, quite similar to Gorlugon or Genolla in the VR Missions of MGS2 (and MGS1). Next you're in a boss fight at the beach, fighting Higgs, unarmed and he is teleporting back and forth and does different attacks at different phases, quite like the Cyborg Ninja in MGS1. Finally, you fight against him in a one-on-one fist fight with beat-em-up style life gauges and you both getting progressively more exhausted... like MGS4's Liquid Ocelot fight. Then there is an ending, but unlike MGSPW and MGSV, the post game starts right in that cutscene.

Another similarity to early MGS: the game features some chunks of backtracking. Which is annoying at times, but I like the core gameplay so much, I didn't mind. Neither did I in MGS1. Just a word of warning.

SPOILERS END

What I wanted to demonstrate here, is, that the game really is more than just walking. It does have its high points and it does introduce weapons and third-person mechanics and unlike what donkey is saying, those are actually quite competently implemented. The item-management/ cargo system of the game also plays quite nicely into them, with you picking up disposable weapons and blood bags (the "rations" of the game, that also double as ammo against the BTs), while also avoiding to overload and become slow or load yourself too top-heavy and start bumbling around like a drunk idiot.

The story also becomes much more developed. The characters who were quite baffling to me at first with exposition dumps and weird names actually managed to grow on me, because all of them reveal really touching backstories and start to feel very three-dimensional, not unlike the characters in MGS1. Hell, even the tube-baby gets an arc and while I couldn't care less initially, it also grew on me.
The basic traversal also feels really good and climbing a mountain in this game feels as close to climbing a mountain in real life as I've ever felt in any video game, which makes it feel much more earned than when you do it in other open world games.
I really appreciate how this game flipped open world design: usually, traversing is downtime and really interesting stuff happens at your destination, such as a stealth mission, a race, a combat scenario, a cutscene, etc. However, in Death Stranding, the destination isn't that important, the journey itself is. Once you start paying attention to packing right, to the terrain (moment-to-moment), once you start planning your route across this extremely open area, and improvising it along the way, it all clicks and the journey becomes truly worthwhile.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, the game is a slow burn for about the first 10 hours (which is a lot), but at that point, the game has pretty much fully opened up and you are given so much freedom to deal with the obstacles it presents. This truly is a game unlike any other, or at least most others. Since it's really cheap now on PS4 if you are at least a little curious, I recommend giving it a shot, especially if you are tired of the generic gaming landscape today and want to try something that's different AND well designed and working. It's not perfect (it takes a while to get going, the story is weird, the basic gameplay idea is a tough sell, the characters and writing and lore are really weird at first, there are some sections of backtracking), but it's a hell of a lot better than it had any right to be (especially considering the circumstances of its development: it is a new studio being formed, a brand new IP, a Triple-A game, not a Sony-owned company, though it did have support, has game design that is unprecedented, has lore and story that is unprecedented).