MGS4 was a Mistake

[mgsolid]

A now old video I just recently found but one every MGS fan should watch. Yes the WHOLE thing. 

Its been like a decade since I was in this forum that I forgot my old login info, but I remember getting into some squarrels with people who put MGS4 on a pedestal as the best in the series, and even one of the best in the entire f...cking industry, and this video perfectly articulates why that is not the case. As the creator says it:

"If you hate this game, today we're gonna look a bit closer and see if there's anything you like. If you love this game I dont want to take that away from you but maybe I can at least shed some light on why people are a little bit more mixed on this one."

"If there's anything I want you to take away from this video it's not that MGS4 is bad or stupid, or that Kojima is a bad writer or the George Lucas of video games, or that Konami ruined Metal Gear, or that Tomokatsu Fukushima and Etsu Tamari are great and Shuyo Murata is bad. It's also NOT that MGS4 is great, some underappreciated masterpiece and a perfect execution of Kojima's grand vision of trickery and subversion. MGS4 as a story is a solid 5 out 10; infinite love and ambition, and zero execution. And if there's any lesson to be taken from the story of this game is that nothing good can come out of trying to control everything."

"MGS4 is riddled with flaws and mistakes, but the greatest mistake of all was letting the Metal Gear series get that far in the first place. MGS4 as a concept was a mistake."

Basically, MGS4 wasn't a mistake because it's a "bad" game. It doesn't play or look bad as a game. But simply because it shouldn't have existed in the first place. It was the ultimate fan service game that works only as a fan service project and nothing more. Which is why I can see ultimate MG fanboys put this game at the top of the list, but that's because they look at it only from fanboy glasses. And unlike the first three MGS games which had more of a personal touch and a message Kojima was trying to impart, MGS4 had neither. Except maybe for the ending with Snake and Big Boss.

And this is why I dislike this game so, so much. Not due to the gameplay or the mechanics of it, although MGS3 is to me far more fun to play, or graphics or sound design or voice acting or level design, etc... but because it's a tremendous waste of time. And yeah, aren't all games a waste of time in some way? But this game had nothing to say or dispense to the fans or the gaming community as a whole other than "here are the f...cking answers you wanted, now leave me a alone"-f...ck you from Kojima.

[A.G.]

I have watched that video and it’s really well done. There a lot of great points for sure. I think in general all games after MGS3 are polarizing. Some love Peace Walker and MGS5. Some don’t. Same goes for MGS4. At the end of the day it’s no different than any other piece of media, it’s all about how it makes you feel personally. I don’t think it has anything to do with being a hardcore fan or not. I love MGS4 and hate MGS5. That my personal take and while I can back it up with specific points… why? If someone had a bad experience with it, so be it. Play what you like. Like what you want.

And as the video says, opinions change with time. I’ve grown to appreciate MGS4 much more over the years, especially as I get older. One part I disagree with you on completely is the note that MGS4 had nothing to say. The game A LOT to say about reflection on your life and our desperate attempts to keep up with the changing world. Sooner or later we all start to fall behind. If you haven’t seen In Defense of MGS4 yet, I recommend it. Great video! MGS4 is all heart and I love it for that.

[fgdj2000]

May 26, 2021 0:52:46 GMT -5 A.G. said:

I have watched that video and it’s really well done. There a lot of great points for sure. I think in general all games after MGS3 are polarizing. Some love Peace Walker and MGS5. Some don’t. Same goes for MGS4. At the end of the day it’s no different than any other piece of media, it’s all about how it makes you feel personally. I don’t think it has anything to do with being a hardcore fan or not. I love MGS4 and hate MGS5. That my personal take and while I can back it up with specific points… why? If someone had a bad experience with it, so be it. Play what you like. Like what you want. 

Amen to that. I love all the Kojima MGS games and some of the other ones as well, despite their flaws. I also really like Death Stranding. I think all of them have heart and personality and that makes up for their flaws in my book (although, did we really need to sexualize Quiet that much? I'm not 15 anymore...). The truth is, no one sets out to make a bad game, but sometimes they just fall short. It's actually quite amazing that games are made at all, considering all the effort you have to go through for a AAA game: art designers, game designers, voice actors, music, lighting, modeling, bug testing, foliage, shaders, mocap actors, voice actors... it's one hell of thing a functioning game is made in the first place. 

Back to topic: I liked how MGSV was much more gameplay focused again (like the early MSX2 games) I enjoyed the symmetry about this. That and the fantastic game mechanics, dark themes, nuanced storytelling (when it doesn't fall flat on its nose), replayabilty and the huge amount of freedom you're given. Also, even after almost six years the game still looks fantastic imo.

[A.G.]

I think all the games starting with MGS2 hold up remarkably well. Both 2 and 3 as the HD version look amazing. And any “unrealistic” looking elements almost feel like an art style now rather than old graphics. I always wanted to see a remastered version of MGS4. The graphics continue to surprise me. I just finished Arkham Asylum and City again, and jumped into MGS4. The game looks better than both. I also love how Snake feels real. Feels like there is weight to him. Most games have the character feel weightless. Looking at Uncharted games and even Last of Us. Kojima always strived for realism and that’s why the MGS games were so ahead of others.