Is Portable Ops canon? - Kojima answers!

[A.G.]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5AoSmr6PijU


Hahaha! Parts of it are canon and parts are not. What a fail! As you play the game you don't even known which parts count which don't! Is Null canon? How about Gene? What about the two Metal Gears that Big Boss forgot about by the time Peace Walker came about? I have lost so much respect for Kojima in the last 6 years. This man is unmaking the Metal Gear series!

[fgdj2000]

How is he unmaking the series? Because he now admits that he doesn't really consider a game he only produced to not be part of his series. Shouldn't you be happy? You have been right all along for all those years. MPO isn't a part of the main Metal Gear Series!
I think he doesn't outright say that its non-canon out of respect of the team who worked on it.

[A.G.]

It really doesn't matter now. His official games do just as much harm to the series as the unofficial or partially canon material. Hell, the best part of Ground Zeroes was the lack of story. Nothing to retcon... Well, except Big Boss' voice. Nothing I saw in GZ in terms of facial performance justifies losing Hayter. But that's another topic. As far as MPO goes, 5 years ago I would've been super happy. Today I really don't care. For me it really ended with MGS4. Peace Walker, Rising, MGS5... All just feel so forced. Can't wait to find out in Phantom Pain that Ocelot had sex with Quiet and they had a boy named Raiden and a girl named Naomi. Oh, and they went to the same daycare as little Otacon. Campbell's wife was the teacher and also GrayFox's twin sister.

[fgdj2000]

I think you are being unfair, reducing the series plot just on the dry factual chronology of events. Kojima has always been a revisionist. He rewrites stuff that was established before like others eat their meal. Just a few examples: Solid Snake being Big Boss' clone, Gray Fox being some sort of mentor to Snake in Outer Heaven (heavily implied in MGS1), about half the plot points in MGS2, Para Medic being Dr. Clark, etc. He simply has got other priorities; to him it has always been more about the subtext, in other words the deeper themes of the story, rather than the actual "factual" story or even history (remember the poetic ending scenes of MGS1&2 featuring live-action footage and a main character almost talking to the player?). To him the story seems to be nothing more than a vehicle to get deeper themes across. Also unlike Splinter Cell which tries to be more action oriented these days, Metal Gear seems to stay true to its pacifistic anti-warfare stealth roots (not to say that Splinter Cell was ever pacifist so that's that ).
As for Kiefer Sutherland: I haven't played Ground Zeroes yet, so I can't say much here... from what I've seen in trailers, I agree, it is weird to hear Big Boss/Snake with the voice of Kiefer Sutherland - David Hayter just WAS Snake. Then again, I think it was about time to change Big Boss' voice actor to make him more different from Solid Snake (actually a lot of gamers, who don't pay much attention to the series, don't know that there are two Snakes).

[A.G.]

Nope, he's just ruining it. The problem is that he is connecting too many dots. At first it was clever, but now it's heavy-handed. Did we really need to have Snake's dad and Otacon's dad be friends? Did we need to have Coldman plan The Boss' demise and then bring her back as an AI? Did we need Huye and Granin be friends? Then sprinkle nanomachines to fill in the plot holes and presto! Ugh!

Sorry, but it was clear to me in MGS4 that Kojima was out of gas. Peace Walker proved it. And I've seen nothing from MGS5 to make me change my mind.

[fgdj2000]

Huey and Granin being friends was established way back in MGS3... back then Huey didn't have a name yet and was simply known as "Otacon's Dad".
Still, no, we didn't need to see Solid Snake's Dad and Otacon's Dad to be friends, but that wasn't the point... the point was telling the story of Big Boss.
Big Boss is trying to live his life according to his interpretation but is still struggling with The Boss' legacy, namely, why she sacrificed herself. He is unwilling to just turn into a mercenary and is trying to fight for an ideal - but over the course of Peace Walker, Motherbase grows, MSF becomes a real nuclear power (out of the desire to protect a defenseless country) and in the end Big Boss discards The Boss for betraying him and declares Outer Heaven.

I really liked Peace Walker - it was the most fun I had since MGS1. It was a self contained stand alone story. Sure, a lot of the characters were bland, but I love the innocence of that game. That is what I mean when I said, it was aimed at a younger demographic (in Japan the PSP was a huge hit with teenagers), hence a (seemingly) 16-year old girl to date and even a child as a major character. Plus the apparent darkness of MGSV can be so much harder hitting, because of this. And teach people a thing or two about loss and life.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is, I am willing to forgive the game these flaws, because it still connected with me and after the preoccupation with continuity over story in MGS4, PW felt like a breath of fresh air back to the roots. I'm sorry if it didn't connect with you and I respect that. But to say Kojima is ruining the series is unfair and untrue. In fact, it is the only long running video game series imo that hasn't lost its soul.

[A.G.]

You have to be kidding. Hasn't lost it's soul? They are slapping the Metal Gear name on EVERYTHING! Card games, mobile games, cyborg slashing games... Even the games he makes are much more action based than they used to. Instead of leading the industry with innovation he is barely playing catchup. Plus the series is now a joke to general video game community, with the broken story and dated storytelling approach being the main cause. The Last of Us is a great example of great storytelling in a video game.

Sorry, but we won't agree on this. He keeps making more and more. With each he waters the series down. And the lessons he is trying to teach are less clear and more forced with each game. For me it ended with MGS4, but even there it was problematic. MGS3 was the last time I felt he truly created a masterpiece. Another point I can't agree with is MPW being more fun than MGS3 and MGS2. Even MGS4. In fact I feel exactly the opposite from you. I thought MPW had a bad story with a weak cast. How can you say it was self containing when it dragged MGS3 through the mud?

In any case, it really doesn't matter. If you are a fan of his product, more power to you. Sounds like you'll be getting a lot of it. For me it stopped being good after MGS3 with MGS4 squeezing by on nostalgia. Anything after that has been disappointing. Sales and review scores are also evidence of this.

[fgdj2000]

I'm sorry, but last I remember, review scores were pretty much fabulous with Peace Walker. And the only reason why GZ got such a backlash and no 9/10s, was the value argument. With the exception of that, everyone praises the Fox engine for its visuals and the amazing gameplay freedom and realism GZ offers. Back in 2010 all peaople praised PW and in Japan it was a huge hit. I even read an article where the author made a point about PW being the only PSP that really makes use of the platform (being a portable game, offering the right features while still having enough of the Metal Gear gameplay). Sales figures have little to do with the actual quality - you can have the best film ever made, but if you advertise it poorly, no one is going to watch it. Or, in the case of Peace Walker, if you have an amazing game, on a console that not many people outside of Japan own, naturally, you will not have good sales, no matter how good the game is!

Also, MG doesn't need to lead the industry for me to like it. And if other players think its ridiculous - 1st yes, the series is hard to get into by this point, but that doesn't mean its bad, 2nd who cares what the Call of Duty, Wolfenstein, Splinter Cell crowd thinks? I don't like those games, they don't have to like "mine".

Really, so the swimming levels in MGS2 were more fun to you? The cutscene-gameplay ratio was good? (I'm not saying the story is bad, mind you!) Quinton Flynn's voice acting? Or how about the annoying dark cave in MGS3, the fun cqc controls, where you end up slicing more throats than you actually want to? Also the characters in Snake Eater... are you serious? With the exception of The Boss and maybe Eva, I'd say they are about on the same level with PW. Cartoony Volgin, cartoony cobra unit (who are a far cry from the amazing Foxhound Characters to be honest). Para Medic? Sigint? Don't get me wrong, I love these games and characters. But if I turn my nostalgia off, they are not that much better or deeper than Huey Emmrich or Dr. Strangelove or Kaz Miller or Amanda and Chico or Paz. They had the benefit of being done first but that's it.

Also, Kojima has never had a problem to slap his name or the Metal Gear name all over things. But the games he is actually working on, the ones that say "A Hideo Kojima Game", there is a certain quality to things: he tries new things in each game, takes his time to develope, makes a lot of things different than most in the industry, while also adopting the things that work, and still has a deep storyline or at least tries to make it about more than playing superspy. Seriously, every single Metal Gear game he directed plays but very different from the previous game(s) while still being familiar enough to be Metal Gear without doubt.

If it were up to me, I'd also say, hey, leave the Metal Gear Series alone! Do something new and different. But we know Metal Gear wouldn't end there. So I'd rather see him doing Metal Gear than anybody else at Konami. Seriously, aside from metal Gear they have nothing - even the recent Castlevania Games were outsourced to Spain.

I respect your opinion, but we will probably really not agree on this...

[fgdj2000]

Also, I don't want power

[A.G.]

If you prefer Peace Walker over MGS2 and MGS3 then we could not be further apart. But then again arguing about that is about as logical as... Well... Arguing about anything on a dead forum. More so doing that with a guy that hasn't been into the Metal Gear series since about 2009.

I still say to you that if you want to see how good storytelling is done you should look at the Last of Us. Kojima has much to learn from that game!

[fgdj2000]

You misunderstand; I just said it was the most fun I've had since MGS1. What I mean by that is, as much as I love the MGS2 and MGS3, which are marvelous, they still felt like you needed to have played the previous games, whereas MGS1 was a stand alone game by itself despite being a sequel to MG1 and MG2. PW was similar to that. While it was a sequel and still within continuity (improbable technologies aside), it also told a stand alone story and was self contained. I liked the game for that. I still love the other games at least as much. But they are not without their flaws.

The Last of Us was great. Started to play it last summer but had a lot of work to do and couldn't finish it. Comparing TLoU with MGS is apples and oranges ... one is a very grounded postapocalyptic realistic character study, the other a tarantinoesque larger than life melodramatic 1980s/1990s action movie Homage

Yeah, it's really a shame that there isn't much going on anymore... I really like your site and also the discussions, but I just discovered it to late

[A.G.]

I don't know, I think Last of Us and MGS are very comparable as games. Both are completely story driven, both focus on serious character drama in an embellished setting, and both focus on a very cigna tic approach to tell the story. Sure, themes are different, but that's not the point. The Last of Us manages to tie more of the story to gameplay. Plus the story is better paced and walks the fine line between fantasy and reality. MGS1 did that the best in the series. Kojima needs an editor, pure and simple.

I still disagree on MPW. You need to play MGS3 before playing it. Or the drama over the Boss' AI means nothing.

Yeah, the site is dead. It made little sense to keep going with it. At one point it was busy with descent traffic, but again, that's before wikipedia. MGF was built in 2001. There was a need for fan sites. But now it's kinda pointless.

[fgdj2000]

I discovered it a couple of years back when they were arguing on wikipedia about the stance of MPO as a main game. Yours was pretty much the only fansite that shared my opinion. Just recently rediscovered it.

Hmm, I think, I'd compare The Last of Us to a Christopher Nolan Movie, whereas Kojima is more an intellectual Tarantino. The Last of Us is more interested in really sucking you into the story, world and character drama and wants you to forget that you are playing a game, whereas Metal Gear actively forces you to acknowledge that you are playing a game (especially MGS2), uses and subverts genre tropes and heavily references works that the director grew up with.

In the end, both are good for their own reasons... but yeah emotionally, The Last of Us simply has no equal. Though with a game as realistic as TLoU, I'm less forgiving with AI issues - your allies bumping into Clickers without anything happening was just ridiculous at times and really broke the immersion (though still better than having clickers chasing after you, because of Ellie's mistakes).

[Cerberus_0408]

FGDJ - have you tried Beyond 2 Souls? It really reminds me of TLoU. Granted I have never played either but both look similar on Wikipedia.

[fgdj2000]

No, I haven't. It never really interested me. David Cage alway bugged me, because he doesn't seem to think very highly of the medium. Also, his games don't seem to be very interactive. Is it any good? Maybe I'm wrong