Ranking Character Skill

[A.G.]

So playing Substance reminded me that MGS4 also used character types to rank differently levels. Combing the two gives us an idea of how Kojima scaled the characters.

Substance Ranking:
Raiden - MGS2 Snake/Pliskin - MGS1 Snake. (Excluding Ninja Raiden and Tuxedo Snake).

MGS4 Ranking:
Liquid Snake - Naked Snake - Solid Snake - Big Boss - The Boss

I would equate the Substance MGS2 Snake to the Solid Normal setting in MGS2. Both represent the Normal level of difficulty well. I would also add the MGS1 Gray Fox to the list from the 1999 VR Missions. So my ranking guess would be this:


1st/Extreme Tier: The Boss and MGS1 Solid Snake
2nd/Hard Tier: Big Boss and Gray Fox
3rd/Normal Tier: Naked Snake and MGS2 Solid Snake
4th/Easy Tier: Raiden and Liquid Snake

Kind of interesting to give Metal Gear cast a tier list.

[Cerberus_0408]

What skill exactly are you referring to? H2H combat, their skill with guns? Or stealth? Or something else?

[A.G.]

Overall. Do you feel there is merit to the difficult setting names in Substance and MGS4?

[Cerberus_0408]

LOL! Now that you mention it, I've NEVER actually beat the games on anything past the Hard difficulty. I guess I'm too much of a coward to be a glutton for punishment, lmfao. Can you explain what exactly makes it harder on higher difficulty settings?

[A.G.]

You have less recovery items, enemies see you from much further away, they are harder to kill without hitting the head and they do far more damage to you. If you go guns blazing in MGS4 on extreme the game is over fairly quickly.

[Cerberus_0408]

Haha, so no Rambo kind of crap.

[A.G.]

Well, you could. But very briefly before you get destroyed. lol

[Cerberus_0408]

So...i guess guns blazing doesn't work in the other games too

[A.G.]

I’ve beaten all of them on the extreme settings. They are brutal. But MGS4 was the first to have shooter style controls. So it was the first one where you could attempt to run and gun.

[murrdogg93]

May 8, 2020 23:33:16 GMT -5 A.G. said:

So playing Substance reminded me that MGS4 also used character types to rank differently levels. Combing the two gives us an idea of how Kojima scaled the characters.

Substance Ranking:
Raiden - MGS2 Snake/Pliskin - MGS1 Snake. (Excluding Ninja Raiden and Tuxedo Snake).

MGS4 Ranking:
Liquid Snake - Naked Snake - Solid Snake - Big Boss - The Boss

I would equate the Substance MGS2 Snake to the Solid Normal setting in MGS2. Both represent the Normal level of difficulty well. I would also add the MGS1 Gray Fox to the list from the 1999 VR Missions. So my ranking guess would be this:


1st/Extreme Tier: The Boss and MGS1 Solid Snake
2nd/Hard Tier: Big Boss and Gray Fox
3rd/Normal Tier: Naked Snake and MGS2 Solid Snake
4th/Easy Tier: Raiden and Liquid Snake

Kind of interesting to give Metal Gear cast a tier list.

Do you think that part of the reason why Big Boss loses to Solid Snake is due to his age? Big Boss was in his 60's at the time. Even if he kept on training & fighting, I can't imagine he could be as effective as he was in his prime years.

[murrdogg93]

I am curious on how Big Boss in his prime would face off vs Solid Snake in his prime.

The two toughest opponents Solid Snake defeated, aside from Big Boss in his 60's, I would say are Cyborg Gray Fox & Vamp. I would argue these two are tougher opponents than Liquid, & Snake never battled Solidus.

Big Boss defeated Volgin, and his phantom defeated The Skulls. I would imagine Big Boss could also defeat them as well, given their similarities.

Since MGS 4 places Naked Normal as easier than Solid Normal, then Big Boss's combat prime would have to be either MGS PW or MGS V, as he embraced the title of Big Boss by the end of PW, not psychologically held back by his grief at that point.

Out of Cyborg Gray Fox, Vamp, Volgin, & The Skulls, who would be the toughest opponent for either of them to face?

[A.G.]

There are a lot of factors here. Are we talking weapons or hand to hand? In terms of CQC I would say Big Boss has the edge. Add weapons in the mix and it’s all about who is more clever. That’s a tough one.

As for their opponents, Cyborg Ninja has the edge. I still want to know how Snake beat him hand to hand when Fox’s exoskeleton was able to hold Rex’s leg in mid stomp.

[murrdogg93]

I would argue Solid Snake is more stealthy in universe, since he regularly wears sneaking suits after Zanzibar Land. But Big Boss has shown being better at using the environment to his advantage, like finding many ways to make distractions beyond knocking on walls. Big Boss is also a better tracker than Solid Snake, which Snake admits in MGS 4. So in terms of cleverness, they might be on equal footing. So the battle could come down to hand to hand combat.

I always point out Snake defeating a Cyborg Ninja in hand to hand combat to prove that Snake is basically superhuman. Also, in Peace Walker, I have seen Big Boss prevent a metal gear from stomping on him. I imagine it was meant for multiplayer, where the whole team stops the stomp together. But it still happens when solo.

Regarding their villains, I do see it coming down to at least blades & melee combat vs Cyborg Ninja, since he deflects any bullets. A group of 4 or 5 Skulls using their blades vs Cyborg Ninja or Vamp would be interesting. Since you fight the Skulls in groups, that's how they would fight these opponents as well, to compare enemy threats.

[fgdj2000]

Well, I think it's safe to say both Solid Snake, Big Boss and Venom Snake (is "both" actually correct?) stand on fairly equal ground. I think circumstance and luck also plays a role. Solid Snake is pretty resilient and of all of them works with the most minimal equipment. Big Boss I think is too sure of himself later in life. Venom Snake is probably a formidable foe, but I think his weakness is that he is a confused brainwashed person and ultimately doesn't want to do what he does deep done, maybe even wants to be released from it.

Okay, getting psychoanalytical here. Personally I'd find more fascinating the idea of 1964 Naked Snake (before Operation Snake Eater) encounter a time traveling Solid Snake from around 2005. They are both similar of age, Solid Snake is the disillusioned one of the two, could be fun.

[A.G.]

Big Boss is no match for Snake in at least one field... pick up lines! 😁