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Post by edward18 on Sept 20, 2015 17:31:42 GMT -5
I just take it as stuff that simply won't make sense as it's all just been thrown in since MGS4 as shock value. 4 already was pretty hard to believe that Zero and the cast of 3 had just all of a sudden become evil and stuff after 3, but the prequel stuff afterwards confuses it even more with how it keeps flip-flopping Zero between being good and evil to the point where 4 doesn't really make much sense at all when it comes to trying to explain the Patriots. Certainly doesn't help that Zero is never actually seen and dealt with properly in the prequels AT ALL. All we get is little pieces of information here and there that start to conflict the more it goes on.
Another pressing matter to me is Dr. Madnar. I'll always be pissed that he wasn't in the prequels EVER, but I gotta really wonder why he's so important in the originals now considering what's happened in the prequels after 3. He was supposed to sorta be the super genius of the bad guys that made these incredible weapons and all that and was significant enough that he was in both of the original games as the lead scientist and the creator of Metal Gear originally. But then he's FINALLY mentioned again in 4 and Snake doesn't even bat an eye at him being mentioned. It's just "oh, btw, Madnar made Raiden's body or whatever. Now about dem nanomachines-"
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Post by A.G. on Sept 20, 2015 19:30:48 GMT -5
I feel the same way about Madnar. Though I was glad he was at least mentioned in MGS4. One can rationalize that there was no reason for Snake to mention he thought he killed the guy 15 years ago.
Another notion that bugs me is Venom's skills. It just waters down the legend of Big Boss seeing how another guy is just as good as he is. I get implanting memories, but how do you implant battle skill on the level of Big Boss? In which case, why bother cloning?
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Post by edward18 on Sept 21, 2015 0:17:10 GMT -5
I thought he was supposed to be a super skilled MSF operative is why he was chosen. To me it's actually kinda nice to see that just some guy can be the hero if he tries instead of just always having to be a real Snake.
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Post by solidelman on Sept 22, 2015 10:11:59 GMT -5
Think of Ahab as a soldier who's good doing anything, A ranks across the board. The problem is we only see him perform a botched up surgery in GZ, so we identify him not as "that badass soldier", but as "that medic".
I think presentation really hurt the twist. You replay random missions and then get Mission 46 out of nowhere. Maybe if something in Mission 43 led up to it, but it's clear the game is missing key missions other than the notorious Mission 51.
A clear sign of this are the unfinished storylines. Everyone's bitching about Eli's, but what about that cutscene where Code Talker tells you "eyes on Kazuhira Miller", as if Miller was going to betray you? Nothing related to that ever seems to happen.
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Post by edward18 on Sept 23, 2015 2:00:45 GMT -5
Miller did always seem kinda odd to me in the game. I mean he's sorta calling all the shots and going at people by the throat from the get-go. And I really started to think "alright...there's probably something up with Miller..." when Huey started saying "Why do you suspect ME?"
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Post by A.G. on Sept 24, 2015 0:48:49 GMT -5
The game is simply incomplete. It's Snatcher on the MSX, missing a third act. But, unlike Snatcher, what we did get wasn't that great. I honestly don't recall seeing a game so polarizing. The gameplay is fun but the story is so bad.
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Sept 24, 2015 4:37:38 GMT -5
See, that's the trouble with series' like MGS. The ONLY f...cking reason Kojima makes more games is to squeeze the sh*t outta diehard fanatics and turn the franchise into a madly lactating cash cow. I remember how CoD and GTA keep selling for no f...cking reason, other than 'o yea our revenue breaks records lmfao'. It didn't help sh*t that both got into multiple controversies, despite that MILLIONS purchased these games every year.
Still, though...I know MGS hasn't gotten involved in these controversies, but that's no excuse for Konami to keep making game after game. If Kojima actually wanted this series to make sense, I would be happy with MG1-MGS4 as a canonical timeline that actually happens, while sh*t like PO, PW, Rising, MGS5 etc is part of expanded universe. Rather like some 'DLC', if you will, that never took place, but that is just there for entertainment value.
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Post by solidelman on Sept 24, 2015 7:49:31 GMT -5
Who's to blame for its incomplete state, though? People keep demonizing Konami but Kojima is the game's director, after all.
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Sept 24, 2015 16:51:57 GMT -5
Well, it seems to me that Konami should, y'know, 'publish' the games that Kojima claims he wants to release. Make sure they're fun to play, but also logical, considering the f...cking convoluted plotline in MGS.
I guess MGS just happens to be a series that has enough popularity to the point where fans will do whatever it takes to play a new one. Including death threats... thus the reason for Kojima to keep spamming games and adding more sh*t to the storyline, instead of actually having finishing touches, or having events properly placed.
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588
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Post by fgdj2000 on Oct 9, 2015 13:14:44 GMT -5
The only flaw in your - shall I call it "theory"? - is that unlike Assassin's Creed or CoD, Kojima doesn't jank out new games every year that are basically identical to the previous games, just with some random new feature or a new location. Even GTA, which doesn't have anual releases because developers take their time, each game plays very similar save for advancements in technology and new locations. With MGS, each game feels completely different, because Kojima tried to do something different with the series each time. Changing as much the formula as Kojima did with each new game (Jungle environment, survival and camouflage gameplay in MGS3, war zone and shooter controls in MGS4, motherbase management and mission based structure in MGSPW, open world environment and pretty much total freedom of choice in MGSV), that's not what you do if you want to "squeeze the sh*t outta diehard fanatics and turn the franchise into a madly lactating cash cow", as you so colorfully put it. I for one am really interested what Kojima has to say about working with Konami a few years down the line, once he isn't dependent on their paycheck anymore, and what really went on behind the scenes of MGSV.
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fgdj2000
Elite (level 2)
Listen, don't obsess over words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
Posts: 588
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Post by fgdj2000 on Oct 9, 2015 13:20:34 GMT -5
Well, it seems to me that Konami should, y'know, 'publish' the games that Kojima claims he wants to release. Make sure they're fun to play, but also logical, considering the f...cking convoluted plotline in MGS. I guess MGS just happens to be a series that has enough popularity to the point where fans will do whatever it takes to play a new one. Including death threats... thus the reason for Kojima to keep spamming games and adding more sh*t to the storyline, instead of actually having finishing touches, or having events properly placed. Clearly, the posts in both this and every other forum out there speak against your "thesis".
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Post by A.G. on Oct 9, 2015 22:16:15 GMT -5
I think story and gameplay get mixed up in topics. But, in the case of Kojima both have suffered. The story we discussed, and I don't think the complaints are unjust. The biggest issue with gameplay, even though I will give him props for trying new things, is that they are not really new. Metal Gear used to lead in game design, now it struggles to keep up. Things that are new to Metal Gear are not new to gamers. Shooter controls, weapon customization, resource management, open world... There are others games that do it far better. Add a decline in storytelling and you got a rather uneventful product.
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
Posts: 633
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Oct 10, 2015 0:52:21 GMT -5
I guess that's what happens when stories like MGS become f...cking convoluted. Instead of simply jumping from here to there as hardcore fanatics please, Kojima should actually take some time to plan things out, so that everything flows like it should.
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Post by lueluxacky on Oct 10, 2015 12:45:36 GMT -5
This is not only the best MG game, but one of the best games to have come out in recent memory. It's on same league as a Fallout or The Witcher game.
If the story is what determines whether a game is good or not for you, then you are missing the complete point of the term "game."
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Cerberus_0408
Elite (level 2)
Now playing MGS HD Collection and wanting Metal Gear Legacy Collection
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Post by Cerberus_0408 on Oct 10, 2015 16:16:26 GMT -5
How is it "the best MG game?" Jungle environment, survival and camoflage? MGS3 started this? Folks, we have had Sniper: Ghost Warrior and its sequel. GTA was doing sh*t like open-world activities and total freedom right from its inception. CoD introduced shooter controls and full-out battles starting with the very first game. Weapons customisation is seen in almost every Ghost Recon title. Resource and motherbased management... PO had it. I don't think that I need to bitch on.
The fact that MGS5 has to combine all these components, which other games have gracefully done years ago, is just a sign of Kojima attempting to introduce sh*t that gamers are f...ckin' familiar with. And by no means is it "one of the best games to have come out in recent memory". We all know that CoD is consistently a best-seller for no other f...cking reason than CoD.
One last thing. The way I see it, the series is declining because of HK's storytelling. You blink and you go from canon to expanded universe without any real warning. The story may determine whether or not a game is good, but that's only one factor. Gameplay-wise, we have had MANY other games with the above-mentioned factors. MGS5 isn't the first, make no mistake. So, no disrespect, but the above poster sounds like he makes zero sense.
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