Kojima Productions and Kojima Himself Leaving Konami

[The Mad Jackyl]

Thought I'd sent out a message and see what you all think about this.

Seems there was a corporate shakeup and Kojima Productions is being disbanded and the status given to Kojima seemingly taken away. Konami has said for now that Kojima is still an employee, but has removed "A Hideo Kojima game" and any sort of that reference to the man on their websites as well as products, including the upcoming MGSV: TPP.

No idea why Konami would restructure like this, Kojima is a huge moneymaker for them and their most notable employee.

[A.G.]

Probably got tired of his creative genius crap. Don't get me wrong, I love his games, but I'm sure he is a difficult man to work with. Also, while his games do make some money it's nothing groundbreaking. The biggest one was MGS2 with 7 million copies. That's very far from any kind of record. The expense to make his games though just may be. MGS4 staff was over 200 people with 4 years of development. I can understand if each MGS was rocking 10 to 15 million copies. But they don't. His vision just may be too expensive.

[Cerberus_0408]

Looks extremely likely Kojima might leave Konami after the release of MGS5. Take a look at the possibilities open to him, in the first part of an ongoing series that will investigate which game publisher he will join and what games he will work.

www.hybridgames.co.uk/metalgearsolid/kp/features/hideo-kojima-a-life-after-konami-part-1/

[A.G.]

While I don't approve of the BS way Konami has handled this situation given everything Kojima has done for them, I am happy to see a legit ending to the series. I'm sure they will make more Metal Gear games or even reboot the series. But that no longer matters. The REAL Metal Gear series, the one that was born in 1987 and raised by Kojima finally comes to a much needed end.

[Cerberus_0408]

My next concern is which studio HK will move on to. Given the fact that MGS was a CASH COW in its time, there are MANY other games out there that could benefit from Kojima's presence. Least of all being CoD or GTA...

[fgdj2000]

Actually, I'm hoping he won't just join a big publisher, but maybe (re)create his own little studio and makes innovative games that tell more personal stories.
a.G. I don't know, I think in Japan the MGS games have been and still are a pretty big hit. And compared to other japanese game series (except maybe Final Fantasy), MGS is doing pretty well over seas. And MGS2s seven million copies were a big record in 2001. So, I'd not downplay Kojima and his Metal Gear series so easily.

[Cerberus_0408]

I'm not necessarily trying to downplay Kojima's MGS series, or trample on his garden. But the truth of the matter is, there really is little (and I'd even say nothing!) more to be milked from the franchise. Fact is, I recognise only MG1; MG2; MGS1; MGS2; MGS3 and MGS4 as legitimate entries. That's it. Sadly, at this point the Metal Gear series has more bullsh*t in it than good. Which explains why even though I have the HDC, I couldn't care any less about anything else they make. Peace Walker was concrete evidence that Kojima ran this story into the ground. But alas, I couldn't give a f...ck any longer.

Mark my words, dude, as for Expanded Universe, PW certainly is indeed that. Just like MPO and just like Rising. These stories are set between existing games and are nothing more than useless fillers that serve literally no goddamn purpose. The saga works perfectly well when you consider nothing more than the 6 installments that I listed above. Everything else is just an embarrassing attempt to turn MGS into a CoD- or GTA-type cash cow. And I say 'embarrassing' because the product released suffers in quality and (IN FACT) doesn't really hold the top spot in sales. Make no mistake, the MGS series hasn't really dominated in revenue since MGS2.

Now I mean you NO disrespect, and same goes to HK. So I hope you aren't offended, but there you go. Don't get me wrong; enjoy this debate, curious to further it, and awaiting your response. Because in discussions like this I speak my mind.

[fgdj2000]

Excuse me, but have we been playing the same series?! I'm sorry, if you didn't like the games released after 2008, but calling them "useless filler" is really a big stretch. Peace Walker told a pretty personal story of Big Boss dealing with the loss of The Boss, while also building something cotroversial, a precursor to Outer Heaven. It felt pretty essential to me, even though we know basically the bullet points from previous games. But knowing the cliff notes of Star Wars doesn't equal watching Star Wars, does it? Also Peace Walker brought back the emphasis on the stealth and didn't give you a buttload of weapons to switch on the fly. The overall mission structure, while a radical departure of the previous linear structure (even though it was kind of foreshadowed in MGS4 with its acts that kind of each represent a mission) added a great deal of depth to the gameplay, because you were forced to think ahead. And even though I'm also not the biggest fan of the various spin-pffs (MPO in particular), I had a blast with Rising. In fact, a lot of critics praised both games, especially Peace Walker, even though - like any game - they had their flaws. Though Rising certainly isn't the cream of the crop of its genre, it's still a pretty good game.
And that is where you comparison between CoD and Metal Gear falls flat. Metal Gear doesn't squeeze out new games that are virtually identical to each other, with tons of microtransactions included, year after year (though they are big on rereleases, I'll give you that). Instead, each main Metal Gear plays quite different from the previous game. A lot of time and thought is given to each one of those. I actually think the Metal Gear games are the polar opposite of the Call of Duty series, even though they feature similar themes (war).

As for sales. I have to admit, the Metal Gear series has been "overtaken" but a number of other (especially western) game series, such as Assassin's Creed. But as far as I know on Japanese markets the games are still pretty successful. Which is a big gaming market for a company like Konami, which is located in Japan and developes games for Japanese audiences. Internationally, the series is still praised by critics (even though Ground Zeroes received harsh criticism for its limited missions in only one area).
I know that in the end a company like Konami will go by profit and maybe developing Metal Gear games like Kojima did - with a long development cycle and a lot of money and manpower spent - doesn't pay off the way a company like Konami wants to. The gaming industry is undergoing a huge amount of changes right now and not all for the better.

To me, it just speaks volumes that in a time when games have to be released on an anual to bianual basis, Kojima takes his time with his triple A game and adds details like functioning toilets or the ability to kidnap sheep to his game and actually listens to criticism and adds functioning garbage bins to hide bodies, the ability to knock and lure guards and cardboard boxes to his games, because fans were missing them in Ground Zeroes.

PS: We're cool (for my part). I just don't agree with your arguments. And I also enjoy an open discussion

[Cerberus_0408]

Sigh...

Excuse me, but have we been playing the same series?! I'm sorry, if you didn't like the games released after 2008, but calling them "useless filler" is really a big stretch.

Well, I think you're full of crap about being a long-term diehard fanatic, especially if you stuck around since 2008. If you were, by now you would see how full of bullsh*t Kojima really is. MGS2 was suppose to be the end. Then MGS3. Then MGS4 was gonna wrap everything up. Hell, we got documentaries that show him saying it on film! Yet we have Peace Walker. Yet we haver Rising. And his secret project...Mark my words. And it'll keep going... And just like MPO, it'll all be canon.

Peace Walker told a pretty personal story of Big Boss dealing with the loss of The Boss, while also building something cotroversial, a precursor to Outer Heaven. It felt pretty essential to me, even though we know basically the bullet points from previous games.

The problem is, you must remember that MPO is still canon. So when you look at MPW, you HAVE to take MGS3 and MPO into consideration. And as such, the story is HORRIBLY done. 3 games that revolve around the same goddamn thing... Big Boss crying about The Boss. Only in MPW she's an AI with butterflies... Gimme a f...ckin' break...

And that is where you comparison between CoD and Metal Gear falls flat. Metal Gear doesn't squeeze out new games that are virtually identical to each other, with tons of microtransactions included, year after year (though they are big on rereleases, I'll give you that). Instead, each main Metal Gear plays quite different from the previous game. A lot of time and thought is given to each one of those. I actually think the Metal Gear games are the polar opposite of the Call of Duty series, even though they feature similar themes (war).

'A lot of time and thought is given to each one of those.' How is this true though? The main reason Kojima keeps pumping out game after game is because hardened veterans all over the globe threaten him with death.

And even though I'm also not the biggest fan of the various spin-pffs (MPO in particular), I had a blast with Rising. In fact, a lot of critics praised both games, especially Peace Walker, even though - like any game - they had their flaws. Though Rising certainly isn't the cream of the crop of its genre, it's still a pretty good game.

Well, I played the demo and honestly I have no interest in this game. So much so that this is the first Metal Gear game I did not buy, nor do I plan to. Nothing I've seen or read makes me interested in playing it.

I know I'm speaking as someone that hasn't played the game, so clearly my judgement is not completely objective. I also speak as a Metal Gear purist. But here are some of the issues I see with this title. Most of them I feel I'm very qualified to judge without playing the full game:

Graphics
I've seen the trailers. I've seen gameplay previews and reviews. I've also played through the demo a few times. The game looks average at best. It's considerably behind the visuals of MGS4, despite coming out almost 5 years later. There is nothing impressive about the environments. That could be due to the fact that they wanted allow you to cut them... but even that mechanic is lame. Once cut, things have unrealistic weight to them. Trees and bricks fall down like they are made out of paper, like it's a cheap high school play set. I would go as far as to say that the visuals are behind the MGS3 HD version. The character models are very unimpressive, especially the support crew.

Story/Characters
I watched the cutscenes on YouTube. Very simple plot, and very fogetable. The cast is one-dimensional. There is no reason to care about anyone in that game, including Raiden. And the Senator... OMG! I would say the end of this game is nothing more than a parady of the Metal Gear series. If someone wanted to mock how rediculous MGS gets sometimes, that ending would be the way to go, the whole ending fight.

Gameplay
I played the demo and I wasn't impressed. Maybe it works well as a slasher game, but I'm not a fan of that style in general. And it's certainly not a Metal Gear game. It disgards all the stealth elements. OOOOH, you can walk up behind someone... Gimme a break! Much like Acid, I don't feel this is an appropriate style for the Metal Gear formula.

Overall
Story is simple and crude. Characters are flat and forgettable. Gameplay is NOT Metal Gear. Graphics are mediocre at best. I see no reason to waste $50.

[A.G.]

I personally felt that in regards to story Kojima ran out of gas after MGS3. MGS4 only works if you are a big fan of MGS1-3. As a stand alone game it has a rather disjointed and poorly edited plot. It's a fun reunion and closure to the cast we love, but on its own the story much weaker than the first 3. Peace Walker and MGS5 are not helping either. It's so bad Kojima publically admitted that Phantom Pain will retcon older games. And that's the biggest problem I have. I'm 33 years old. I first played MGS1 when I was 17. Nothing in my eyes is allowed to mess with that game, not even Kojima. I've stated my problems with Peace Walker and how it downplays the importance on MG1 and MG2. Phantom Pain is doing this with MGS1. Why is the "historical weapon" like REX in 1984? Why is young Liquid driving it? Same dumbass reason that Otacon's dad sounds like Otacon, bad writing. Why is everyone related and connected? Why are the mechs in the 70's and 80's better than in the 90's and 2000's? All of this is very frustrating.

Gameplay is a different a story. It keeps evolving and getting better. Ground Zeroes was a blast and the demos of the Phantom Pain are incredibly promising. This is why, for the first time ever, I dread the story of the new game while being only interested in the gameplay.

I hate that Big Boss is explained. Him saluting over the Boss' grave is all the backstory I ever needed or wanted.

[Cerberus_0408]

Well, AG, from a 'revenue stand-point', you can't blame the man. Metal Gear keeps money in his pocket, food on his table, and bills in his outrageously hot wife's ass. Had the two series' roles been reversed, MGS the flop and ZoTE the success, it'd be a different world we lived in.

Furthermore, the main reason Kojima keeps making games after games, as I earlier stated, is primarily due to death threats. In the past, the games were fun as f...ck although you had to go through a sh*tload of cutscenes and radio chatter. But now it seems he's just generating revenue for the sake of generating revenue. Like how Activision or Rockstar anxiously milk the sh*t outta their franchises. It's a pity 'cos Kojima didn't do it because he actually wanted to but because fans around the world warned him to otherwise they'd kill him if he didn't. Had he actually planned games and then made them of his own accord, I believe, imo, that the story could be as fleshed out as gameplay.

[A.G.]

There are two problems with that theory:

1. The whole death threats thing, assuming it was actually true, is over a decade old. It happened after MGS2, the height of the series popularity. He was going to pass off MGS3. Turns out, it's not so much the fan loyalty that keeps it going but more of the inability of his team to make a game without him. Hence the Rising fiasco.

2. The cost for making his games is very high. MGS4 staff was over 200 people and the development seems to last 3-4 years. However, when the games come out, the sales are far from record setting. MGS2 is the peak of the series with 7 million. That's nothing to the true sales heavyweights. Just look at GTA: GTA5 - 52 million, GTA4 - 25 million, GTA3 - 17 million. Even other story games saw more success; Final Fantasy 7 - 9 million, Resident Evil - 9 million, Halo 3 - 14 million. I won't even mention Nintendo.

I believe this is why Kojima has his feud with Konami. His games have high production cost but the sales are nothing incredible. In addition, MGS is no longer a trend setter. Around the second half of the PS2 era and into the PS3 generation, a lot of other game makers stepped up in the area of graphics and gameplay innovation. If anything, MGS is trying to catch up. MGS3 had to include the 3D camera, MGS4 had to refine controls, MGS5 had to go open world. When it comes to things like that the series is desperately struggling to stay relevant. Sure, his attention to detain is unmatched, but most gamers today don't care that soldiers can smell your cigarette smoke or that ice cubes are actually melting on the table. And as far as storytelling, Naughty Dog easily took that crown in the last generation and I doubt MGS5 will take it back.

As Ocelot once said, "you are long overdue for retirement." No more missing links or final chapters, just end it.

[Cerberus_0408]

Konami is indeed f...cked should Kojima leave. Their Silent Hill series, for one, wasn't even marketed. And when they DID decide to market it (which was very little nowadays), they did it horribly. It's the main reason why Downpour didn't sell so well (and Vatra sadly went out of business as well), same with Book of Memories. Their horrid marketing "campaigns" is also the main reason why the HD Collection was botched and such bullsh*t.

A main problem with SH being that when Silent Hill 1 came out on the PS1, it was the Golden Age of the Resident Evil franchise, and Silent Hill was competing heavily with Resident Evil 2. Konami probably thought, at the time, that any amount of marketing they put into Silent Hill wasn't going to help, so they just pumped out a few magazine ads, maybe one commercial but they kept sending preview copies to all the magazines.

And then, suddenly, Konami wonders why the f...ck Resident Evil is still around. Even though a majority of fans will admit that RE5 and RE6 were bullsh*t, it makes no goddamn difference because both games still sold a gazillion copies. Capcom even acknowledged this and informed the fanbase [in a trollish manner] that RE5 is like, the best-selling Capcom game of all time or some sh*t.

[fgdj2000]

Oh, you are pulling the "not a true fan" card. Well, I've been playing these games since day one - which over here in Europe was 1999. The sad part is, I do understand your complaints. You want it all to fit together perfectly storywise. There must not be any violation of the sacred Metal Gear canon! The truth is, many fans never ever truly understood the Metal Gear series and what its story was/is about at all. The series is not about Solid Snake taking down Metal Gears or fighting the Patriots or coming to terms with his clone heiritage, it is not about any of that shabang. At its core, it's about what shapes a person. How or even if your genetic make-up influences you, how the "truths" and memes around you can manipulate you, how the times determine your values or your idea of good and evil, how ones actions can be misinterpreted and now how you language, race and culture has a great ifluence on you as a person. You've heard it all before, GENE, MEME, SCENE, SENSE, PEACE, and RACE & REVENGE. Apparently you never listened. The main story of each game is written solely with these main themes in mind, to illustrate those - and they are also often reflected in the gameplay in some form or another. This is the true legacy of the Metal Gear (Solid) series. And MGSV fits right in there. So, if you don't care for that, you are probably playing the wrong games.
As for MGS5 f*cking with MGS1: this is just a silly argument. Nothing will ever f*ck with MGS1. It's still there, as it was in 1998, ready to be played.
As for Revengeance: it wasn't about any of that deep thematic stuff. It was just fun. Yeah, it did purposefully mock the series oftentimes flamboyant way of storytelling. That was the Point of Rising: to make something totally different than Solid, but still somewhat associated with it. It was the exploitation B-movie that's just fun to watch and not to be taken seriously. However, If you don't like that, its perfectly fine. However, Rising was a decent looking game (yeah, some of the enviroments were a bit meh), but it ran fluid at 60 fps and had flawless gameplay for the kind of game it wanted to be. So, your judgement of the game is, frankly, unfair - especially since you haven't played it.
As for the sales. Again, you only compare MGS with western game hits and their international sales. However, this is seriously the wrong category. In Japan, MGS5 is still pretty big and a lot of games such as GTA or AC or CoD not really. And that is the same category miscalculation that apparently Konami did. As for the international market: no japanese games outside Nintendo, Souls series, Final Fantasy and maybe a decent anime licence like Dragon Ball really sell. Hack, when compared to the excellent Yakuza series, which has flawless gameplay, a great storyline, huge attention to detail, a ton of not-copy-and-pasted content, strong sales in Japan and for some reason just doesn't sell over here, MGS is an international hit. So, put the sales figures in context before jumping to conclusions. I think the main reason for Kojima leaving is that Konami is dropping console games alltogether in favor of mobile games with microtransactions.

[A.G.]

Enjoy the canon as he continues to make new games that retcon the old ones? Are you insane?